7th December 01:09
HOWEDY diana aka lush,
That's pretty much HOWE dogs in the wild do it, lush.
Yeah. Unfortunately, this IS a PERSONAL issue with you, lush.
You got PROBLEMS for other dog oweners, lush?
Like yours, lush?
Your dog is HYPERACTIVE.
And you think your dog understands THAT?
You mean those folks you got ISSUES with, lush?
You mean like HOWE your dog does if you don't choke IT, lush.
You mean TRYING to AVOID everyWON so your dog won't
LEARN a BAD LESSON, lush?
You've been jerking and choking your dog for two years.
You'd BEEN jerking and choking your last DEAD DOG Stone
till IT WENT INSANE and you MURDERED IT for temperament
and behavior problems that you caused by jerking and
chokin IT. REMEMBER lush?
On accHOWENT of YOU CHOKE HER when she TRIES to do that.
Your dog goes INSANE.
You mean it REWARDS her by causing her to GO NUTS
and makes you jerk and choke her someMOORE.
Your dog has NEVER been TRAINED, lush. You've been
jerking and choking and spraying aversives in her
face for two years. You've got a VERY LONG POSTED
CASE HISTORY of HURTING dogs and LYING abHOWET it.
DIS-EASE is the only reason he shouldn't let his dog
run up to strange dogs, lush. Dogs ONLY fight if they
are AFRAID, lush. Dogs ONLY GET AFRAID when they've
been ABUSED by MENTAL CASES like yourself, lush.
You mean that your dog will fight when you
can't jerk and choke both dogs, lush?
That's ABSURD, lush. Dogs GET "FEAR AGGRESSIVE"
from being jerked and choked to prevent them
from sayin "HOWEDY!" to other dogs, lush.
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
What's viciHOWES is your circular thinkin, lush.
You're a liar and dog abuser and mental case.
On accHOWENT of he's chokin IT to prevent
aggression which CAUSES "fear aggression."
ONLY IF HE'S MISHANDLED.
You mean, those folks you got ISSUES with, lush?
A dog is a dog, lush.
Dogs ONLY become fearful if you've abused them, lush.
INDEED? You mean your REPLACEMENT dog is gettin
JUST LIKE HOWE your last DEAD DOG Stone, was on
accHOWENT of ALL YOU KNOW is ABUSE, lush. You
was TAUGHT ABUSE by your abusive parents:
"Dad's failing business made him even worse & his
bad temper was becoming more & more viscous. Sadie
messed the floor, Sadie jumped on the kitchen counter
& stole food, Sadie's punishments were beatings so
bad I thought he'd kill her. I would scream & cry,
I would get some to."
And THAT'S HOWE COME you're a MENTAL CASE and DOG ABUSER, lush.
Subject: Re: Dog growled at child HOWEDY lush,
"Diana" <d...@dogstuffagain.fslife.co.*uk> wrote in message news:firstname.lastname@example.org...
We gonna start blamin BABIES, nHOWE?
That's ABSURD. The dog is AFRAID on accHOWENT
of HOWE IT is being "trained."
BECAUSE HE'S AFRAID.
Abusive mom dogs LEARN abuse from their abusive mom dogs
and their abusive handlers.
You mean, instead of training the dog to ACCEPT
and NOT FEAR, the child?
Good point, lush.
You mean, it's FEAR. It's the SAME SAME SAME SAME FEAR
the OP is using to TRAIN his dog.
Just like HOWE the OP is WARNING the dog to FEAR the child.
What mark, lush?
You think the child doesn't UNDERSTAND being FRIGHTENED?
SAME SAME, lush. The ineffective warnings of an abusive mom
dog are ignored much the same as the ineffective warnings the
OP is TEACHING HIS DOG.
We can CORRECT THAT, lush, if you know HOWE.
NO. "Sorting things HOWET" is THE PROBLEM.
You mean, a FEAR REFLEX.
You mean, the first sign of his FEAR REFLEX.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME we TRAIN the dog, lush.
UNLESS YOU'RE TRAINING THE DOG NOT TO DO THAT NOMOORE.
Subject: On A Mission To Hound Me Out After My Statement.
That Statement Being That I Actually Like Jerry And His Stuff,"
lush aka dianna.
Date: 2003-06-28 09:40:13 PST
HOWEDY roy. just roy.,
"Roy. Just Roy." <soylent_pur...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:email@example.com om...
Right. TRUTH isn't mentioned there.
According to Your Puppy Wizard, expert dog trainers
who jerk and choke dogs on pronged spiked pinch
choke collars for a half hour and then throw the dog
to the ground growl into his throat and bite him on their
ear to teach them to heel, are dog abusers.
When they deny it, they're liars. It's all in our archives.
The archives don't lie, roy. just roy.. Look up sinofabitche's
history. She's posted HUNDREDS of WARNINGS to new
readers informing them that Jerry's a fraud and a liar.
I'm just callin a spade a spade. EVERY THING Your
Puppy Wizard sez is the truth. That's HOWE COME
our DOG LOVERS organize complain to Jerry's ISP campaines frequently.
Because Mr. Howe teaches people HOWE to train
dogs without hurting them... and exposes our experts
as lying dog abusing Thug Cowards.
Do they train dogs there, roy. just roy.?
Your Puppy Wizard always has a good day.
All except for these goddamned paper slippers.
GAWD I HATE these paper slippers. Don't
you roy. just roy.?
Here's our dog lover lush, before she found out she
was a Thug. Since then, she's been organizing complain
to Jerry's ISP campaigns:
Subject: "On A Mission To Hound Me Out After My Statement. That
Statement Being That I Actually Like Jerry And His Stuff," lush
From: Diana (diana_pete.attw...@lineone.ne*t)
Subject: whoa - very long but you asked for it.
Date: 2001-11-10 05:19:06 PST
I was getting a bit paranoid there and I did think you were
just all on a mission to hound me out after my statement.
I've got some time now so I will answer you questions as
it so obviously caused great upset amongst you all.
That statement being that I actually like Jerry and his stuff.
Read carefully if you interested, because I know how easy it
is to miss things, grab the wrong end of the stick etc &
misinterpret... done it myself a million times. It also goes
quite in depth about the dogs I lived with as a child and the
methods my parents used to train both the dogs and us.
I barely remember the Shelti my parents had when I was born
-apparently she died when I was about 2, but we got Ivan the
Samoyed (visually - not pure) when I was 3(ish). I do remember
even going to pick him up as a pup and there were little
fluffy baby dogs everywhere... some were black and I wanted a
black one but Dad said we had to have a white one because
Samoyeds were supposed to be white and we wanted it to look
like we had a pure samoyed - don't hang me here - remember it
clear as day but I was only about 3. We lived in Vancouver
then.. if anyone's interested. I loved Ivan - but he chewed
our toys. This made Dad mad so he would hit him so hard he
screamed and throw him down the stairs. Tony (brother) was a
toddler - but I remember that I had to look out for any toys,
both mine and his to make sure they would not be chewed and
those that were got, got hidden. His temper and excessive
punishments were not just for Ivan. I remember clearly one
morning being up before my parents and playing in the kitchen,
pretending to be mum, as kids do... but got caught with the
electric carving knife. A leather belt across the backside
hurts. Even now I can not understand how he could have done
that to a 3-4 year old child... or a pup.
When I was four my parents decided that they wanted to come
back to England and I remember hating the little girl who came
with her dad to take Ivan away and being told he would be her
We came to England & stayed at Nan's for some time. Nan had
Sheba- beautiful but elderly Rough Collie. Was so passive and
quiet . Then one day I fell down the stairs. As I tumbled
down, she came up and caught me... at four I was feeling more
and more fearful of people but safe in the company of dogs.
We moved out of Nan's and in to our own home. It was a large
house & had a huge garden & was opposite a large public park -
I think I was about 51/2 when Dad brought home Tisha - a
Borzoi pup. She wet & messed the floor and was punished by
having her nose pushed in it, a slipper across the backside so
she yelped and being thrown outside, I didn't like this - I
was sure they didn't have to do this to her. Dad loved her -
she was his dog and we had to ask permission to touch her. He
liked his big car ~ posh dog image.
The garden was big, the fence was big - the park opposite was
fun the road in between was fast. Tisha got big and took a big
jump. She made 18 months.
The discussions went on - Dad wanted a dog for himself, so it
was decided that they were going to get an Old English
Sheepdog for them and a Basset for us kids... then we went
around to loads of breeders and saw loads of pups - dogs being
very my passion I took it all in. I remember the Old English
Sheepdog lady telling Mum why she thought we shouldn't have
one with 2 young children, and so it was decided that while
Dad made up his mind what he wanted, Mum would take us to the
RSPCA to choose a dog for us.
We picked up Sadie in 1976 - 4 months old JRT x. I was 7 - I
was unhappy at school, I had never settled in,at first being
shy of my different accent and because I was a timid child
anyway. Sadie was my olny friend. Sadie messed the floor,
Sadie got her nose shoved in it, and the whack - Sadie did not
learn - she was so scared of people coming down the stairs in
the morning that she wet & messed the floor - so they hit her.
I would try and sneak down and tidy up before they came down -
I would get hit for being soft on her.
Sadie pulled on the lead. I never mentioned mum was a horse
fanatic ~ she showed me that the way to stop Sadie pulling was
to snap a shoot from a tree and use it as a whip on the dogs
nose. I didn't like it but I knew no better - I was
desperately looking for a better method - it was my job to
walk her after school.
Barbara Woodhouse came on tv... my love of dogs and all I had
learnt about breeds now extended and I learnt about choke
collars - much preferable to the whip - I also saw how she
used methods such as copying the dogs play stance and how she
had commended someone for using my trick of rubbing a dogs
chest to calm it - I was dead proud because I had already
learnt that for myself.
Sadie was a JRT x. She was also as afraid of my bad tempered
and unreasonable father as I was. We spent so much time curled
together, cowering behind the sofa.
I had always thought it would be great if I could teach Sadie
to speak. She got pretty good at the jumps and obedience games
we played in the garden and I was learning bout how to ask her
to do these things using enthusiasm as the motivation. 'Look,
come on, we can do this...' I wish my parents could have
looked out of the window to see this.
I was 9 when Mum got taken in to hospital to have Jonny.
Something had gone wrong and she was in there for 3 months.
Sadie went to kennels, Me & Tony went to Nan's.
Sheba had long since gone and she had Bridie, another rough
collie. Bridie had a long, long pedigree - she also had a
long, long nose... so long she could not close her mouth
properly. For a young dog she may have looked beautiful but
she couldn't / wouldn't do anything.I would walk her and
should float along behind - I had always dreamt of breeding
Old English Mastiffs when I was grown up. I decided I no
longer liked the idea of breeding beautiful pedigrees.
Jonny was born and we all came home. Sadie loved the baby. She
would, at any time when we were together, take my hand in her
mouth and take me to the crib, which she would stand up
against, watching. I realised that this was my childhood dream
- Sadie was talking to me. I realised then too that she had
been all along. It was my fault for not listening.
Dad's business started going wrong. We had to sell the house.
Sadie went to kennels & we moved around in rented
accommodation for a while. Sadie was my only friend and I
missed her. Eventually we found a place where Sadie could
come. It was great to have her back but she had been
disturbed. She had never been totally housetrained - due to
her fear of punishment - Dad's failing business made him even
worse & his bad temper was becoming more & more viscous. Sadie
messed the floor, Sadie jumped on the kitchen counter & stole
food, Sadie's punishments were beatings so bad I thought he'd
kill her. I would scream & cry, I would get some to.
Eventually, by the time I was 10 we found a cottage they could
afford and Dad started his business again. He struggled &
struggled and was becoming nastier and nastier. We all just
kept out of the way. Mum & Dad would go out to the Pub and I
would look after my brothers - while they were out we were
fine. Luckily they were out a lot. I was 14 when Dulcie, my
sister was born. I couldn't see why they did this - I was
already pretty much the only mother Jonny knew, Dad's business
was failing again and we had to sell the house again. Rented
accommodation again - no dogs. Sadie went to stay at Dad's
business property for a while. It was a fair way away and I
went with Dad to work on Saturdays when I could - but he
didn't want me there. I saw her loose her 'terrierness' and
she looked so sad - then Mum took her to kennels, this time
for good. I was completely broken by this but could do nothing
Things got worse & to be honest I blocked most of my memory of
the in-between years. I jumped into the first job I could get
to get me away from home as soon as possible & not so much
chose a career as made an escape. I left home but was so hard
up I worked day & night just for rent and food. I was doing
hairdressing - poor choice for a young girl nigh on phobic of
people. It did help bring me back out of myself but I knew I
was playing the wrong game. My boss at the hairdressers found
me the job at the sign makers and I was finally able to start
doing what I was good at. Unfortunately just in time for the
early 90's recession... so for the love of the job I struggled
on low wages and living in bedsits
All this time I could not have a dog. I needed a stable home
environment & I struggled & struggled on low wages just hoping
this dream would come true... In between time everybody's dog
was my dog. I was always willing to walk them & learn from
them. People were always happy to get out of walkies if there
was a willing volunteer... and I realised how much Sadie had
taught me. From JRT's to Rotties & Danes.. they responded to
enthusiasm, eye contact and body stance.
It never, ever occurred to me that you could get job as a dog
trainer except for in the police or army...
I had learnt my own ways of handling dogs, from dogs... not
problem dogs or aggressive dogs but generally peoples pets who
generally appreciated the attention.
I met Pete, we bought our home and I begged, bribed near
enough blackmailed my boss to let me bring a dog to work -
much of it on the grounds that I had worked beside him and
helped him through the grey days of recession - it was payback
time. He gave in & we got Stone.
She knew 'sit', she knew 'stay' and she was pretty good on the
lead. No was the stop it command ~ and on command she would
stop. She was, as I have mentioned many times before, in a
real mess both physically & emotionally, but we worked on this
on the basis that we only ever offered a 'no' when it was for
reasons of her own safety and offered her lots and lots of
praise - just for being there. Her confidence grew -
Eventually - behaviour became a popular thing on TV and I
could see 'behaviourists' putting methods in to play that I
had already used - namely Barking Mad (BBC TV) My interest in
this side started a revival and I started looking around the
internet. Then discovered alt.animals.dog and could share a
few of my ideas - Stone's problem with her flank ****ing
really became an issue in May this year. Looking for an answer
which no one in my ng could help me with I started looking at
the others - inc. this one. I posted My Girl here in about
July time and had a few responses - I got sent Jerry's book
and for the very first time I read a completely passive means
of dog training. I think of Ivan, I think of poor Sadie...
and I talk to people and hear them tell me of the time they
had to beat there dog for chewing or running off... and I know
from Sadie and I know from Stone that it is not necessary -
but then without showing them it's hard to prove it and too,
with all theory and no practice it's hard to make it sound
like a real means whereas they watch uncle Matty work miracles
with his choke collar and they love the convenience of crating
their dogs - so to prove it I need to come here and put these
ideas across and learn from them.
I hope that gives you good insight as to why I like jerry's
As for Jerry himself, when I thanked him for his book he was
as nice a person as one could communicate with. I see that he
is sometimes nasty, I can see that it's a pain ~ but too can I
see that in his mind he's standing up for the likes of poor
Ivan & Sadie.. and even to a degree me as a young girl.
That's not what I want... but I can see why. His sanity?
Questionable, as probably too is my own. It's taken me a long
long time to be able to stand up on my own and say and do as I
believe rather than hiding in shadows - a right I am not now
going to give up quickly... Jerry has got good stuff to say -
I can see also that some things may be questionable or could
be improved upon but the concept of a completely passive means
of working with dogs, or indeed any animal, has got to be an
ideal worth reaching for. http://website.lineone.net/~di*ana_pete.attwood "sionnach"
<rhyfe...@email.msn.com> wrote in message news:9sfmq9$133i9e$1@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
From: Amy Dahl (a...@oakhillkennel.com)
Subject: Re: whoa - very long but you asked for it.
Date: 2001-11-10 05:52:08 PST Diana wrote:
I read it carefully, Diana. I can empathize better than you
probably know. I am not inclined to go into such detail about
myself, but will say that, as with you, dogs have been my
"salvation" from a less-than-ideal past.
I would appreciate it if you would read the following. Those
of us Jerry slams are not your dad. Some of us use physical
means to train our dogs--but they are worlds away from the
pointless punishments that teach nothing but fear. In my
case, if the dogs didn't respond with confidence and
enthusiasm (and rapid learning), I'd find another method or
All-sweetness-and-no-correctio*ns is a pretty normal response
to the experience of physical abuse (of course, repeating the
pattern of abuse is another). But IMO it is possible to go
another step beyond that and recognize that many dogs like to
work. They like to learn and do complex things in partnership
with their person, and derive great confidence and stability
from this kind of activity. My observations suggest that the
"payoff" to the dog's happiness is well worth the few
corrections they experience.
And crate training, which you decry, makes it very easy to
housetrain a dog without the punishments you found so
ineffective, without so much as saying "no," and in a very
short time. My first puppy had it figured out in three days.
I had never even thought about training a dog before. It's a
matter of setting the puppy up to do things right.
I read what you wrote. I paid attention; I respect your point
of view. If you're ever in the Eastern U.S., plan to come by
North Carolina and I'll show you some dogs who LOVE their work
and are bursting with confidence--not to challenge what you've
written, but to introduce you to another aspect of potential
canine happiness and well-being.
From: Jerry Howe (jho...@bellsouth.net)
Subject: Re: whoa - very long but you asked for it.
Date: 2001-11-10 09:04:35 PST
Hello lying frosty dahl,
"Amy Dahl" <a...@oakhillkennel.com> wrote in message news:3BED316A.FBC7737D@oakhillkennel.com...
As stated. Most of our lying dog abusing Thugs are victims of
abuse, or they wouldn't HURT dogs to train them, and they
CERTAINLY wouldn't LIE about what they do to defend their actions and beliefs...FACT.
That's right. I started off with that loudmouth drunken dog
abuser dogman and professor lying doc "scruff shake" dermer
and and professora "chin cuff absolutely doesn't mean slap"
gingold. Expose and cut off the head..., and now we're down
the the commercial purveyor of "PRESSURE" (PAIN and DEATH)...
that be YOU, lying frosty dahl. That be you and your pals
cindymooreon and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and our shelter
dog killers like janet boss, john richardson and mikey ball et al.
You hurt and intmidate dogs because you're not bright enough
to outwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
Pointless or "effective" are moot issues. You HURT dogs
because you don't know any better ways of handling and
training them. You say you're an expert professional trainer.
I've discredited you. Competent trainers do not HURT dogs FOR LOVE or MONEY.
There ain't no way you can suppose that whatever justifies you
applying "PRESSURE" to a dog, is going to result in anything
but MISTRUST and FEAR.
In your case you've been proven to be a liar on top of being a
dog abuser. That's gonnna cost you BIG TIME. You've libeled my
machine THAT SAVES DOG'S LIVE'S, dahl. That means I'm gonna
take you for everything your worth... WATCH.
Here's the deal... I'll give you thirty days to close out your
dog training business and I forget all about you... all you
have to do is retract your statements about Doggy Do Right
(And Kitty Will Too) and explain that you had no information
about my machine and that you spoke in error because of you
unfamiliarity with appropriate dog training and the technology
involved in BIOSOUND. Send me an email and I'll have an
agreement drawn and noterized.
Otherwise, you lose the farm. Simple, huh?
That's part of your BIG LIE, dahl. You hurt and kill dogs.
I train real life working dogs, dahl. You train dogs for
points. Is that why you got to pinch and twist their ears and
beat them with sticks and choke and shock and hang them when
they object to being beaten, choke, hit, and shocked? For
POINTS? Don't you know your dogs would work harder and better
if they were part of the team instead of being victims of your
Neanderthal mentality? Do you believe that hurting a dog to
make IT pick up a dead birdie is moore important than an
attack dog working to protect his family? If Jerry don't NEED
to HURT "dangerous" dogs to make them safe with families, why
then do you NEED to HURT and intimidate dogs to make them do
the MOST NATURAL thing in the world for a Retriever dog to do?
Hmm? Sounds like we got CHEDDAR.
Is that so? Why then do you need to employ "PRESSURE?"
You think dogs enjoy being shocked pinched and beaten? If that
was so, you wouldn't NEED to LIE about what you do to dogs.
That proves you intentionally hurt dogs because you have NO regard for them.
That's why I came here to put you outta the dog business.
That doesn't stand up to scrutiny lying frosty dahl, just like
the rest of your lies. Crating inhibits HOWESbreaking by
teaching the dog the crate is its HOWES and your HOWES is his
territory... FIGURE IT OUT, DIRTBAG.
Sorry, you're a dog abusing lying Thug. Either that, or you
just don't know any better. I strongly recommend you accept my
offer to get the heel outta this business.
Perhaps that's why I say most of our behavior problems come
from inappropriate and ineffective methods of handling and
OR YOU HURT THEM.
First of all, you're a proven liar. Secondly, you're a dog
abuser. Thirdly, YOU GOT CHEDDAR. Me. I'm your Cheddar.
INDEED. I look forward to you and cindymooreon demonstrating
your methods in front of a criminal judge and jury on charges
of animal abuse with ME as expert witness for the prosecution.
And I'll be glad to represent any civil cases if anyone will
come forward with a complaint about temperament problems in
the dogs you've abused.
And I look forward to meeting you in civil court to accept
your property as judgement for the damage you've tried to
cause my Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will Too).
So, do as you see fit. Today's 11/10/01. You got thirty days
to think about your future and your retirement and your
estate, if you have heirs.
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe
There Is A Single Cir***stance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is
Anything But Destructive," amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK
IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," As it
catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog
is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable
without any ear pinch, you are finished" "This is continued
resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not
done until it is overcome" If the dog drops it, chuck it
solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!" "(stay on the ear
until it does)" "(perhaps because the ear is getting tender,
or the dog has decided it isn't worth it)" "You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less
tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply" Try pinching the ear between the metal casing
and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in" "but will squeal, thrash
around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb" "even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against
that" "Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance" dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
And here's one from me:
!CAUTION! Dog abusing lying Thugs. Enter at your own peril!
You are responsible for your own loss of credibility and
damages to careers and reputations resultant from being
exposed and discredited. Proceed at your own risk. This is a
violence free zone. Violators will be subject to prolonged
emotional, social and professional punishment and will be
pursued to the gates of Heel and kept within under guard of a
Wits' End Trained Dog.