yourconscience

HOWEDY poobah,

Yeah. You've got a VERY LONG posted case history of DISMAL FAILURE.

You might have to TRAIN the dog to PLAY, poo...

You mean from being intimidated.


Kinda like a surgeon?


ANY THING OPPOSITE of what YOU WANT...


You mean like melanie and leah's and Master Of Deception
blankman and her CLOSE PERSONAL REAL LIFE PAL lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's E***PERT sheep hurtin dogs?


On accHOWENT of you CAN'T TRAIN your own dog.

PERAHPS he won't attempt to bribe choke and intimidate
his dog like HOWE you done yours?


Like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's JIVE?


INDEEDY! Too bad Jive couldn't stand the heat on
long SAR jobs. He's still not able to herd sheep,
but he's enjoying attackin them and embarrassing his "trainers".


That so? THAT'S on accHOWENT of he's AFRAID of you.


On accHOWENT of he'd BITE you for hurting and intimidating him.


Yeah, but you're a IDIOT.


Only if you mishandle them.


PROBABLY on accHOWENT of they know you're a idiot.


Like HOWE you done yours...

PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT of you've sufficiently repressed them.


Oh. Too bad you can't use THAT to TRAIN your dog to do what you WANT.


No, but you did mention you DUMPED your dog on accHOWENT
of YOU COULDN'T TRAIN IT and so you BLAME THE BREED like
any dog abusing mental case here abHOWETS would do <{) ;~ ) >


Right. That'd be a matter of TRAINING.

You mean the OTHER MENTAL CASES who hurt intimidate
and murder dogs and lie abHOWET it or blame the breed.

Yeah, but they're MENTAL CASES, like yourself who
AIN'T GOT THE INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning
of the domestic puppy dog.


"Birds of a feather," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{) ; ~ ) >

That so? They HOWEtwitted you and your pal... BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!


You mean like matty, lying frosty dahl, lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, kwbrown, janet boss, robin
nutcase, and melanie and a couple of the other
lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases
who LIKE YOURSELF HURT INTIDMIATE and MURDER dogs
just to get their POINTS in the ring...


Yeah. Selfish dogs...

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:33:14 -0500

Subject: Re: Dog defeacates in house at night. Hello Poobah,
Poobah" <ladysby...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ced23935.0202111128.6dad8035@posting.google.c om...

Hmm. Where do you suppose she got that from?


Ahh. That's where she gets the passive/aggressive from, allelomimetic
behavior. She copies your actions and offers the behavior back to you, as taught.

everything.

As they should. Even I don't like to get whacked anyMOORE than
it takes to get it over with. Punishment doesn't make dogs want to
do everything you ask cause everything good always comes from
you. That's partly HOWE COME my students dogs do everything
they ask, cause we never scold or correct them. I'll copy something
below for you to see the basics of HOWE my methods work.


All behaviors are related. Behavior problems that are repressed
through any form of correction often change to other often worse,
seemingly non related behaviors as substitutes or replacements.

Let's start by thinking opposition reflex and allelomimetic behavior.
Realize that every physical or mental force or compulsion is going to
be oposed, and every thing we do is going to be copied and played back at us.


Right. The problems is motivation. That's HOWE COME our "experts"
bribe. I don't condone bribery. It's unsavory, and lowers your dog's
regard for you and usurps your authority...imagine, being upstaged by
a piece of liver. A ripe garbage can or a bunny goin by looking like
a weenie on a pogo stick have much moore appeal than our Cheddar.
You're the only one who'se got that "goodd boy" he loves to hear
every time he glances in your direction and every time you speak
to him. That's what motivates our dogs to want to work. And we
have conditioning techniques to compell them to work, without
forcing or opposing them.

Could be several reasons for that, we'll discuss those in other threads.

Right, but there's a few problems with that. You've got
to handle the lead properly or we'll cause anxiety from
pulling on the collar. The dog is constantly going to be
trying for more attention, and you're it.

Right. Cause you're trying to make her do commands, instead of
teaching her to want to do everything you ask because that's her
role in your family. Enlist her, don't alienate her.

Right. You're going nose to nose to try to make her do things she'd
love to do and is programed by instinct to do for us if you made
her feel like she's part of the solution rather than part of the problem.


Right, cause she's waiting for you to enforce commands, cause that
gets her extra attention. Some trainers are afraid they'll wear out
praise. Dog'll work forever for priase alone.

does.

At four months old she's going to be likely to listen and follow
you. As she matures then she'll start being more independent.

Dogs are made hyper by repressing their behaviors. That doesn't
mean we can't train dogs not to do things, we just can't successfully
train them using corrective or punishing methods. Even just telling
the dog NO causes an oppositional mind set and anxiety, loss of
self esteem, or aggression.


To me, a dog is a dog.


Good. I almost never handle my students dogs, they've
got no business working for me.


Hmm, that's not good.

pressure.


ANY force, physical verbal or emotional compulsion,
is going to cause oppositon. I never ask a dog to do
anything till I've done the preliminary exercises in
my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available
for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com to establish
a bond with the dog so he'll want to do as I ask.


Fear inhibits learning and memory and diminishes the dog's creativity
and problem solving efforts for fear of making mistakes. My dogs have
never heard me tell them NO or any scolding word or glance.

(clicker)

O.K., food causes some strange thoughts in some dogs. Dogs ordinarily
steal food and run off with it and fight over it. Dining among dogs is
not
a communal socialization thing unless they're a pack. The presence of
food is cause to get bit by another dog guarding it. Those are some of
the thoughts we trigger when we offer new dogs food bribes.

Beyond that, food treats in association with commands often distract
the dog's thoughts from the ideas we're teaching.

Commands should alsways be given WITH praise and the praise
continued till the command is completed or broken, and the appropriate
action taken spontaneously with the THOUGHT of the behavior, not
the action.

My students train a 100% reliable come command in about one hour and
can quickly and EZily teach their dogs to do or not do anything they
ask without force.

All dogs are soft.


THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard DON'T HURT
and INTIMIDATE them to train them and THAT'S HOWE
COME HIS dogs will NATURALLY WANT to do ANY THING
they're asked for PRAISE ONLY.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

From: ladysby...@yahoo.com (Poobah)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 11:50:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Was Agility : are Border Collies
*really* all that superior?
"Christy" <easily.amu...@gtenospam.net>
wrote in message <news:2hi88.710$QQ1.656669@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>...

Just a generalization, Christy. On average, you will find
a more competitive, obsessive person. BTW, I include myself in
that catagory. I'm not driven competitively, but I am stubborn.
It is what has made me stick it out with this dog. She is the
least bidable dog I have ever worked with. While I didn't
seek it, I guess I am taking up the challenge.

As for the breed, I suggested the more lithe, athletic Australian
Cattle Dogs and Aussie sheps. In fact, I saw an Aussie last night
that had the BC's blown away, then there was a fault.

Poobah Feb 22 2002, 11:06 am
I had a mixed breed that scaled the fence to get to the bunny, tho and
we had a Chow/Golden mix that was shot by a farmer whose livestock she
would not leave alone.

D

Subject: Re: 4 those n search of the "right" breed...
Solo...@webtv.net wrote in message

Like many others I got a list way too huge to be meaningful.
In fact, my main criteria is "bidable" and that was not even
covered.

My favorite breed came up, but my second fav didn't. And
there were many rare breeds, but NOT the one I am interested in .
Of dubious help.

D


From: ladysby...@yahoo.com (Poobah)
Date: 5 Feb 2002 17:57:23 -0800
Subject: Re: What type of companion dog is good for 6 mth old puppy

I have a 1½ old Border Collie (f)
who is pretty active. Then I got a
****er puppy. The ****er puppy,
who is much smaller, draive the BC insane.

He chews on her ears, bites her feet, tries to
dominate her and a lot of other unpleasant things.

Imagine this dynamic if their sizes were reversed,
such as you are describing.

I don't think it would be a good idea unless you
are willing to committ a LOT of time to making
SURE nothing untoward happens.

I am home 24/7 right now and think I had rocks
in my head for getting two young dogs.

D

From: ladysby...@yahoo.com (Poobah)
Date: 26 Feb 2002 14:12:35 -0800

Subject: Dog losing weight, should I be concerned?

My Border Collie is inexplicably losing weight. If anything she is
getting more than her daily allotment of food. My family hands out
real food treats lavishly. She isn't in a situation where she could
easily get worms, although anything is certainly possible. She seems
happier than she ever has been and gets lots of attention. She has
been spayed. The other dog tries to steal her food, but it is only a
dominance issue. He isn't as interested in food as she is and for the
most part she winds up getting his too after he has left it.

She is on Solid Gold in the mornings, and in the evening she gets
about 4 oz meat. Plus lots of treats both for training and just
handouts and leftovers. (Tonight she had pasta and meatloaf,
yesterday it was leftover pizza) She seems OK otherwise. In fact
her coat is vastly improved since coming here 8 months ago. She was a
pretty thin 39 lbs when I got here from the pound. Then she gained up
to about 45 lbs, and now she is 36. She is a taller BC, I don't know
exactly how tall, but she is nearly as tall as my brother's G.Shep who
weighs about 75 lbs and isn't fat. She has enough coat, you can't see
ribs, but you certainly can feel them. In fact when you feel her you
can't miss them.

Do you think I should be concerned? She eats inedibles (plastic, etc)
a lot, but them all seem to come out OK.
D

From: ladysby...@yahoo.com (Poobah)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 12:07:26 -0800
Local: Thurs,Feb 21 2002 12:07 pm
Subject: Re: Dog Breed Advice
"Buford T. Justice" <POSTMESS...@newsgroup.net> wrote in message

You have my deepest sympathy, Buford (if that is your name.) I too
have a herding breed rescue dog (BC) and those people were merciless
to me for keeping her when I was clearly disappointed with her. Later
on they flamed another woman who gave hers up because she was
disappointed in her (where she went on to be a therapy dog.) You
just can't please these people, nor should you be foolish enough to
try!


What I was most disappointed in was that she wasn't at all bidable.
Secondly she isn't at all playful. I was used to sporting breeds, who
are eager to please, and live to play. Have you had dogs in the past
that you were pleased with? If so, I'd go to that *type* of dog and
search for the size and temperment requirements you are looking for.
By that I mean, if you have had a sporting dog (Lab, Golden, Spaniel,
etc) you might try sticking to that type.

Also, I think you need to prioritize. What is MOST important,
protection or friendly? MY sporting dogs could easily distinguish
between friend and foe, and act accordingly. But many dogs don't and
are just friendly with everyone, or worse mean with everyone. Many
who will protect are not at all playful.

And lastly, intelligence can be vastly over-rated. It certainly does
not foretell ease of training. It makes training harder, not easier.
I prefer a dog who CAN learn in a few reps, but one that will just
plunge in and try some stuff. Instead of one who stands there
figuring out if they want to do it or not. It is what I mean by
bidable. If they are eager to please and have the attitude that they
are going to TRY to please no matter what, it makes life a lot easier
for all concerned.

Don't forget to check out the rare breeds. They are often very
popular in the country of origin and have exactly what you are looking
for, but just haven't "made it" elsewhere.

D

From: ladysby...@yahoo.com (Poobah)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 11:28:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Dog defeacates in house at night.


I have a problem with my Border Collie. If she were human,
I would call her passive/aggressive. She considers compliance
optional, and this calls for a correction. However, corrections,
no matter how mild make her fearful of everything. And I do
mean everything. She is a pound rescue and I have never used
anything on her except my voice &/or collar and lead. There is
no question she understands the commands, she performs them
perfectly in class, but feels it isn't important in any other
situation.

I have tried attaching her to me 24/7 and she does get better
in a few days. However, after about 4 days of being good (free),
the obedience gets slower, and then only occasional. In short,
training is never permanent with her, but I must continually
go back to square one and demand compliance. Then I only get it
for a short time. Meantime my very hyper 4 mo old puppy actually
minds better than she does. (She is not hyper - he is far more
active.- another breed entirely)

She won't work for the instructor in class, only me. She pees
whenever he handles her, and he does NOT use anything even close
to force, only gentle pressure. She has been frightened of any
operatant until I got the puppy and she saw him getting pieces of
hot dog and cheese while using it, so she edged closer and closer
until she wasn't afraid any more. (clicker)

I have the worst of both worlds here, a very soft dog who considers
obedience optional.

D