john-melb

Trevor Tosspot's Porky List

*I have a friend who can STOP his heart

*Their is ample evidence to support the fact that possession of an
inanimate object is capable of altering a cognitive persons intent

*The FBI-UCR for the years 1976-86 are available on the FBI web-site

*My local library has Lott's work in the fiction section

*20% of Australian homes possess firearms

*I only deal in facts

*The firearms related murder rate in the US is 10,000,000 PA.

*gun licences back in the 1920s led to a drop in the murder rate,

*How the British 1903 Pistol Act was enacted and enforced in
Australia prior to Federation.

*How an audit of Government owned arms at Sydney Cove in 1796 was a
gun control law
---------------------------------------------------------------------------****-----------

Now we have


**Yes. Easily. Across the US, each year, there are hundreds of 'gun
shows'. At these 'gun shows' dealers, posing as private citizens sell
thousands of guns to criminals. They can do so, because there are
virtually zero restrictions on the sale of 'second hand' guns. Even if
that gun has only been 'second hand' for a couple of minutes and has
never been fired.
----------------------------------------------------------

kr

Criminals will get their hands on anything and everything illegal you
want to name.
Look at the drug laws, yet there is no shortage of drugs on the
street,
despite the penalties and attempts to stop it. Same with the alcohol
prohibition,
what a failure that was, in USA and Russia. Black markets spring up
like weeds in
any prohibition you want to poke a stick at.

Anything you want that is illegal is available for a price / effort.
You would have to have to be extremely naive, insane, or have an
agenda to say otherwise.

You could also look at the TW literary classic "I made a cheese
sandwich" on aus hi fi.

While it doesn't look like his work, at first glance, the posting
history of this account
going back some years shows many posts from the same poster that do
look exactly like his current ones.

trevor wilson

On Jun 22, 8:32 am, John-Melb <mcnamara_j...@hotmail.com> wrote:


Criminals will get their hands on anything and everything illegal you
want to name.

**Not necessarily. Guns, in Australia, are far more expensive than they are
in the US. As a consequence, only relatively wealthy criminals have them.
The average junkie cannot afford a (hand) gun.

Look at the drug laws, yet there is no shortage of drugs on the
street,
despite the penalties and attempts to stop it.

**Prove it. Present your hard proof that drug laws have not reduced the
availability of drugs. You claim is bogus and you should know it. Despite
DUI laws, we still have drunk drivers. Despite laws against homicide, we
still have homicides. Despite laws against bank robbing, some people still
rob banks. Are you trying to suggest that, because all these (and many
other) laws are not 100% effective, that they are useless? Is that your
claim?

Same with the alcohol
prohibition,
what a failure that was, in USA and Russia. Black markets spring up
like weeds in
any prohibition you want to poke a stick at.

**Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. If the prohibition laws were
sufficiently enforced and, more specifically, corruption in law enforcement
was rooted out, then those laws would have acheived much what they set out
to do. If you don't believe that prohibition can work, then I suggest you
travel to Saudi Arabia and chug a six pack on a public street.

Anything you want that is illegal is available for a price / effort.
You would have to have to be extremely naive, insane, or have an
agenda to say otherwise.

**That was my point. In the US, a used, cheap handgun sells for as little as
US$50.00, through legal channels. Here in Australia, they are MUCH more
expensive. This restricts the number of handguns in the hands of low level
criminals. It does not eliminate ALL guns from the hands of ALL criminals.

You could also look at the TW literary classic "I made a cheese
sandwich" on aus hi fi.

While it doesn't look like his work, at first glance, the posting
history of this account
going back some years shows many posts from the same poster that do
look exactly like his current ones.

**I find it hugely amusing to see just how stupid people can be. Those who
have been ****ered by the imposter are truly and irrevocably stupid. Were
you ****ed in by the imposter? I know John McNamara (aka: John-Melb) was. He
has an excuse. He a moron.


--
Trevor Wilson
http://www.rageaudio.com.au

john - melb

I note Trevor failed to provide any evidence to support his assertion
that dealers are posing as private citizens to sell guns to criminals
at gun shows, without the necessary background checks, despite being
provided with evidence that this activity is illegal.

Clearly, Trevor has some evidence that this is going on.

I guess this shows exactly the sort of person Trevor is, he has
evidence of a crime being committed, but fails to report that criminal
activity to the relevant authorities, despite the threat this criminal
activity poses to public safety, because the continuance of this
criminal activity allows Trevor to ride his favourite political hobby-
horse on Usenet.

Pathetic, truely pathetic.

grey_ghost471-newsgroups

To bad the facts aren't with you. http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d8- Australia-experiencing-more-violent-crime-despite-gun-ban


So you're a racist who doesn't think people who are poor should be able to
buy a gun for protection. Only the rich folks should.


--
Always remember:

Bull Connor was a Democrat!

blinky bill

What part of those lies and misrepresentations do you think refutes the
claim that "The average junkie cannot afford a (hand) gun."?

trevor wilson

**LOL! You're the pathetic one. Do some research. Start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole#The_.22Gun_show_loophole.22

From 2004 to 2006, ATF conducted surveillance and undercover investigations
at 195 gun shows (approximately 2% of all shows). Specific targeting of
suspected individuals (77%) resulted in 121 individual arrests and 5,345
firearms seizures. Seventy nine of the 121 ATF operation plans were known
suspects previously under investigation. [2]

Additionally, ATF Field Offices report that:

a.. Between 2002 and 2005, more than 400 guns legally purchased at gun
shows from licensed dealers in the city of Richmond, Virginia, were later
recovered in connection with criminal activity. Bouchard notes that, "These
figures do not take into account firearms that may have been sold at
Richmond area gun shows by unlicensed sellers, as these transactions are
more difficult to track."[1] It is noteworthy that the "in connection with
criminal activity" category includes stolen guns later recovered from
burglaries, but the report does not specify how many guns in the 400 gun
figure cited were not guns used in the commission of a crime, but that were
rather the fruits of criminal activity.
b.. The Department of Justice reports, "after reviewing hundreds of trace
reports associated with guns used in crime recovered in the [New Orleans]
area and interviewing known gang members and other criminals, ATF Special
Agents identified area gun shows as a source used by local gang members and
other criminals to obtain guns."[2]
c.. In 2003 and 2004, the San Francisco ATF Field Division conducted six
general operations at Reno, Nevada, guns shows to investigate interstate
firearms trafficking. During these operations, "agents purchased firearms
and identified violations related to "off paper" sales, sales to
out-of-state residents, and dealing in firearms without a license." The "ATF
seized or purchased 400 firearms before making arrests and executing search
warrants, which resulted in the seizure of an additional 600 firearms and
the recovery of explosives."[2]
d.. ATF's Columbus Field Division conducted its anti-trafficking
operations based on intelligence from Cleveland police that "many of the
guns recovered in high-crime areas of the city had been purchased at local
gun shows." Subsequent gun show sting operations resulted in the seizure of
"5 guns, one indictment, and two pending indictments for felony possession
of a firearm." The state of Ohio is one of the top ten source states for
recovered guns used in crime.[2]
e.. The ATF's Phoenix Field Division reported that "many gun shows
attracted large numbers of gang members from Mexico and California. They
often bought large quantities of assault weapons and smuggled them into
Mexico or transported them to California."[2] Garen Wintemute, a professor
at the University of California at Davis, calls Arizona and Texas a
"gunrunner's paradise."
Also see:

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/opinion/editorials/article/the_gun_show_loophole_its_about_safety/15311/

And:

http://www.vpc.org/studies/tupfour.htm

And:

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/shady-dealings.pdf

And:

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/gun_show.shtml

"
a.. "The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do
these checks - and there-s no clear definition of what qualifies as an
occasional seller.2
a.. Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves
occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for
felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them
without a background check."

--
Trevor Wilson
http://www.rageaudio.com.au

john - melb

<SNIP>

So, you make an assertion and I'm expected to do the research
to support that assertion?

Sorry, your strawman, you burn it.

Research I've seen indicates less than 1% of guns recovered following
a
crime can be sourced to gun shows.

None of which supports your claim that licenced dealers are selling
at
gunshows without conducting background checks.

keithr

Even in the US, a $50 gun is likely to be more dangerous to the firer
than the firee.

fritz

Gun-lover = one who has a truly pathetic personal disorder