letemeatwmds

__________________________

Marie responds:

That's right, Fritz, as you suggest straight men typically molest
little girls. And the phenomenon cuts across all age groups with these
sexual predators. We have a name for these men, and they're called
pedophiles, a term which was heretofore universally associated with
men molesting little girls.

So, why don't you explain to the rest of us, Fritz, why all these
homosexual priests who molested prepubescent and teenage boys to the
almost total exclusion of little girls are now all of a sudden
pedophiles? These were all gay boys that they molested? Where did you
learn that, my good man? Is that why they all sued the church? Because
they were gay boys doing what gay boys do?

So, why no girls, dear sir? There are as many altar girls these days
are there are altar boys, so don't try that one. And, no, these
priests weren't performing their duties in a prison either. OK, next
excuse. C'mon, I'm ready. And your crowd wonders why we don't want
homosexuals within 20 light years of a boy scout tent.

Why do I have this feeling that you wish you had never brought this
up? Sounds like you haven't been properly coached in how to steer
these NG discussions.

You strike me as a kind and decent person, and I would like you to at
least consider the possibility that not a few in your ranks are
duplicitous and have a far more sinister agenda than you care to
admit.

Cordially, Marie

__________________________


cite please.....

rainbowchristiannohate

-Fritz <fsmith@bcfjeupl.net> wrote in message
news:<3F8D8BA0.7CD9471E@bcfjeupl.net>...
-> Thurston Phoremost wrote:
->
-> > > no one likes a pedophile. NO ONE. There was a Royal Commission into whether
-> > > there is a link between homosexuality and pedophilia and it was found that
-> > > there *absolutely is not.*
-> >
-> > Bullshit.
-> >
-> > Tell that to your friends at NAMBLA. They claim to be a group of
-> > homosexuals who are trying to get the age of consent for homosexual
-> > "intercourse" lowered. IOW, they are homosexuals who want to molest
-> > children. No different to most other homosexuals, except they are
-> > honest about it.
->
-> I see you don't know what NAMBLA is all about, and I'm not here
-> to defend them. But, it's an organization of gay men loving younger
-> gay boys. They don't have any interest in molesting straight boys.
-> But molesting is molesting with whomever, and I'm not so sure it
-> a good idea.
->
-> One last point, there are many, many, abuses of little girls by older
-> straight men, then there will ever be by gays.
-
- __________________________
-
-Marie responds:
-
-That's right, Fritz, as you suggest straight men typically molest
-little girls. And the phenomenon cuts across all age groups with these
-sexual predators. We have a name for these men, and they're called
-pedophiles, a term which was heretofore universally associated with
-men molesting little girls.
-"``There are thousands upon thousands of cases in which females were
abused,'' said Gary Richard Schoener, a Minnesota psychologist and expert
on clergy sexual abuse. ``Finally there is some attention on this issue
because there are far more priests who offend against girls and women than
against boys.''..."

http://www2.bostonherald.com/news/lo...ie02252002.htm


Father Porter was raping a six-year-old girl when an eleven-year-old girl
valiantly tried to stop him. He violently sodomized her as a result.

Father Porter wrote to the Pope and admitted his predation, but the Pope
did nothing to prevent more of the same.

And further:

================================================== ===============

FAIR USE NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which
has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. I am
making such material available in an effort to advance understanding of
environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,
and social justice issues, etc. I believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of
any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US
Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107

================================================== ===============

March 22, 2002

Wrong Labels Inflame Fears of Catholics

By JOHN TIERNEY

ow that we in the press have so energetically contemplated "the sins of
the fathers," as headline writers keep putting it, let us contemplate our
own.

Thanks to coverage of the Roman Catholic Church's sex scandal, many people
are afraid to let their children become altar boys or attend Catholic
elementary schools. They have heard that the church is rife with sexual
predators molesting children, and thatchurch and law enforcement officials
have allowed an epidemic of pedophilia to occur.

There has been serious sexual misconduct, but we have exaggerated it by
mislabeling it. The image of "pedophile priests" is largely a myth,
according to Philip Jenkins, a professor of history and religious studies
at Pennsylvania State University and the author of "Pedophiles and
Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis" (Oxford University Press,
1996).

Dr. Jenkins is not an apologist for the Catholic Church or an advocate of
clerical celibacy: he himself belongs to the Episcopal Church, which
allows married priests of either sex. Nor does he minimize the problems of
child abuse: he has published an expos of child pornography on the
Internet. But he says there is no evidence that the rate of pedophilia
among Catholic priests is higher than among other clergy or other
professions.

Most of the church's sexual abuse cases involve older teenagers above the
legal age of consent, Dr. Jenkins said. "I don't want to excuse this
behavior," he said. "Having sex with a 16- or 17-year-old boy or girl may
be phenomenally stupid and wrong in many ways immoral, sinful, an abuse of
authority but it's very different from pedophilia, which is the
exploitation of prepubescent children. In most of these cases with older
teenagers, there's some degree of consent, and in most jurisdictions
they're legal." The age of consent is 17 in New York and 16 in many
places.

Dr. Jenkins pointed to a study in Chicago a decade ago that concluded that
about 40 of 2,200 priests, a little less than 2 percent, had committed
sexual misconduct with a minor. But only one priest of the 2,200 was
classified as a pedophile. Those statistics sound reasonable to me,
although you wouldn't necessarily know it from my last column. In looking
back on my days in Catholic schools, I wrote that we had all heard rumors
about certain priests and brothers. But the rumors I had in mind were all
about clerics interested in pubescent boys.

They were not pedophiles. You could call them pederasts, using a term that
originally meant men attracted to boys up to adulthood, although it has
come to be applied to homosexuals in general. The most precise term, Dr.
Jenkins said, would be ephebophile someone with a sexual preference for
boys or girls beyond puberty but don't expect to see that in many
headlines soon.


THESE distinctions aren't merely semantic. "If you have a pedophile, the
behavior is likely to be deeply obsessive and very hard to cure," Dr.
Jenkins said. "The church is taking a suicidal risk in sending a
pedophile to a parish. But when it's someone who had sex with an older
teenager, then with treatment and proper
supervision and restrictions, the priest might well not cause future problems."

There are plenty of heterosexual men teaching in public schools who find
17-year-old girls attractive, and some of them act on their impulses, but
we don't talk about an epidemic of child molestation in the public
schools. We don't usually express concerns that they will abuse third
graders, as people in Washington Heights are saying about a priest there
who is accused of having sex with a 17-year-old boy. (The priest denies
the accusation.)

Dr. Jenkins attributes the current misconceptions partly to linguistic
imprecision, partly to traditional anti-Catholic stereotypes and partly to
the desire to avoid an awkward issue:
homosexual priests. Although there is no evidence of disproportionate
rates of pedophilia among priests, Dr. Jenkins said, surveys have found
that an unusually high number of priests have homosexual inclinations.

"The issue of gay priests is very sensitive, and not just for the Catholic
Church," Dr. Jenkins said. "It bears on controversies like allowing gay
men in the Boy Scouts. I'm sure that most gay scoutmasters would be
responsible, and I don't know that gay men
are any more likely than heterosexual men to have sex with teenagers. But
the experience of the Catholic Church suggests there will be problems if
you send gay scoutmasters on camping trips with teenage boys."


Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

mike painter

pedo refers to children and not exclusively to girls.
Men have been molesting children for a very long time and in some cultures
little boys were picked over little girls.

Because they fit the actual definition and not your definition.
<snip>


I wonder what Marie would be like if she was not being cordial?

dpdavis

Yes, the overwhelming majority of pedophiles are heterosexual. Many
are in even monogamous heterosexual relationships.

Is this a sign that heterosexual people are corrupt?

michael higgins

Is there some reason to think molesting young boys is worse than molesting
young girls?

A child molester, pedophile, whatever, are criminals and should be punished
regardless if they are gay or straight.

Claiming homosexuals are more prone to molest children than straights flies
in the face of reality.

It doesn't matter if the felon is known as Father or Daddy, Christ made it
pretty clear what He thought about the topic, and I'm on His side.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TELL NO TALES
A story of life in an Age of Terrorism
http://www.tellnotales.info

gregory gadow

Actually, that groups consists mainly of law enforcement agents hoping to catch
pedophiles and right wing fundamentalists who are pushing an extremist agenda in order to
find a paintbrush -- any paintbrush -- that can be used to further their bigotry against
gay people. I find it almost funny the way right wing nuts try to blame lesbians (who are
also homosexuals, don't forget) for groups like NAMBLA.


Incorrect. Most pedophiles are men who, in their adult relationships, identify as
straight but who molest children of both genders.

No. It has always refered to adults (male or female) who sexually prey on children (male or female.)

Three reasons, in no particular order:

1. In the time that the vast majority of these crimes were committed, it was much easier
for a pedophile priest to have access to a male victim than a female. While parents were
generally more cautious about letting their daughters spend unsupervised time with a
priest, few parents gave a second thought about their sons doing exactly that. In fact,
evidence shows that the boys were often *encouraged* to spend lots of unsupervised time
with priests in the hope that the priestly vocation would (pardon the expression) rub off
on them.

2. Male victims are more likely to feel shame and degradation when molested by male
adults and are more likely to come forward with accusations when they feel it is safe to
do so, even years latter. As a result, more male victims have stood forth than female
victims.

3. A great many of the priests accused (so far) of pedophilia have also molested girls.
You see this in the media far less because:

A) Men molesting girls is hardly newsworthy.

B) Most states have laws that protect the identities of sexual abuse victims, and most
such laws are written in a way that presupposes that the victim is female. As a result,
women who have been sexually assaulted may retain a media privacy that men do not have.
This means that male victims are far more likely to make national news.


Gay or not does not make it acceptable.


Sexual assault is wrong, no matter what.


It was not gay priests who committed these crimes. It was pedophile priests. Despite your
bigotry, there is a fundamental difference between the two. Or shall we look at the huge
number of male adult on female child sexual assaults and make broad judgements about the
morality of all heterosexuals?
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin

gregory gadow

Yes, if we apply the same "logic" used by the right wing extremists against gay
people. As a result, heterosexuality should be prohibited by law.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin

dpdavis

It is clear to me that homosexuals are gaining more and more
acceptance in our culture because the arguments against homosexuality
are so weak. These two especially:


1) "It is unnatural."

So are many things, but we don't discriminate against those. Besides,
there is evidence of homosexuality in the natural world (outside of the
natural world of humans).

2) "It is morally wrong."

Why? "Because it's unnatural" (See above). "It is morally wrong
because the Bible says it is." These are religious beliefs. Although,
the Bible says many odd things; like endorsing slavery, all kinds of
strange offerings, and freedom to kill anyone who breaks any of these
laws. These are not legislated into our society, they are not even
followed by those who use the Bible as proof that 'God hates homos.'

Also, heterosexual sins of adultery far outweigh anything said about
homosexuality, but for some reason, we don't hear much about that. In
fact, many of our moralizers against homosexuality are guilty of divorce
and adultery, yet they still live.

mark k. bilbo

Women attacked by clergy doesn't attract the attention from the media. It
does, however, happen in very large numbers.

We also know that pedophiles who go after young boys do so because they
lack secondary, male characteristics. That is, they're like girls.

And by the way, lying bitch, how did you get out of my killfile?

--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only