gandalf grey

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1002465,00.html

Blair accepts military trial for Britons

US warnings shift view on Guantanamo Bay prisoners

Nicholas Watt in Seoul and Julian Borger in Washington
Monday July 21, 2003
The Guardian

Tony Blair indicated yesterday that two of the British men being detained at
Guantanamo Bay in Cuba will still stand trial before a US military court
because national security would be at risk if they were returned to Britain.

With the attorney general, Lord Goldsmith, expected to start talks today in
Washington about the fate of the two men, Mr Blair hinted that their best
hope would be a slight loosening of the military tribunal's rules.

Meanwhile, Clive Stafford Smith, a lawyer who has represented the British
inmates at American hearings, said he had been told by US government sources
that a deal had been done before Lord Goldsmith even arrived in the country.
The only significant concession would be to lift the threat of the death
penalty.

The news will infuriate supporters of Moazzem Begg and Feroz Abbasi, whose
hopes were raised last week when George Bush authorised a temporary halt in
the legal proceedings to allow Lord Goldsmith to travel to the talks.

Speaking to Sky television during his trip to the far east, Mr Blair hinted
that President Bush had handed him intelligence warning of the dangers of
returning the men to Britain, where they would almost certainly be set free.

"We have got to look at a whole range of considerations, not least our own
national security," he said.

His remarks show he has been persuaded by US concern that Mr Begg and Mr
Abbasi would be free to return to Pakistan if they were repatriated because
legal experts do not believe they could be charged with any offence in
Britain.

In his first public comment about the men since a White House dinner with Mr
Bush on Thursday, Mr Blair indicated that he now supported a military trial
as he called on people to give the US credit for the tribunal. "Any military
commission that [the Americans] have is subject to rules that I think would
be regarded as reasonably strict by anyone."

But he said the Americans would have to go some way to observing legal
norms. "Obviously if we have our own nationals tried in that way we would
want to make sure that every single aspect of this was consistent with the
proper rules."

Britain has expressed "strong reservations" about the trial, which would be
conducted by a military judge and prosecution. The men would be entitled to
appoint their own defence team but the lawyers would have to pass a strict
vetting procedure, for which the lawyers themselves would have to pay.

The prosecution would be able to present as evidence testimony gained under
duress and unsworn statements, and the tribunal has the power to impose the
death penalty.

Mr Blair's remarks indicate that President Bush has agreed to loosen the
rules, but a normal criminal trial on the mainland, along the lines of the
trial of the Californian supporter of the Taliban, John Walker Lindh, has
been ruled out.

Mr Blair qualified his remarks by saying that Lord Goldsmith would discuss
two options in Washington - repatriating the two men to face trial in
Britain or amending the rules of the US tribunal to bring them more into
line with the British legal system.

But Mr Blair's warning about national security, and his praise for the
"strict" rules governing the tribunal, indicated that he is prepared to face
down a row by agreeing to a trial at Guantanamo Bay.

"Unfortunately, I am informed by the Americans that the 'fix' is in, and
that the result of your visit has already been determined," Mr Stafford


"I understand that the only concession that President Bush will make is that
the British will not be subject to the death penalty. Again, this would be
no concession at all, since there is no evidence to date that our citizens
committed any act that would justify a death sentence."

The men's supporters are likely to be angered that Mr Blair came close to
endorsing Mr Bush's description of the two as "bad men". Mr Blair told Sky:
"These cases all arise out the situation in Afghanistan where people were
supporting al-Qaida, the terrorist network and the Taliban against British
and American forces ... it is just worth pointing out that this came out of
a situation of huge danger for ourselves and our armed forces."

Asked whether he agreed with Mr Bush's controversial remarks, Mr Blair said:
"I think what he was meaning by that was the situation in terms of people
going over and supporting al-Qaida and the Taliban ... some of the
discussion of this in the past few weeks has rather forgotten the context in
which this arose."

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"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so
long as I'm the dictator." - GW Bush 12/18/2000.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
---Theodore Roosevelt

"Feels Good!"
---George W. Bush on the Brink of Declaring War on Iraq.

tempest

It seems he's purposely trying to get thrown out of office.

I guess he finally got the Carlyle job offer in writing.

--
"Suppose you were a heartless bastard, and suppose you were a Republican
.... but I repeat myself."

- Mark Twain

tempest

Extremely negative.

Several Ministers have asked for Blair's resignation over the issue.

--
"If the Lord can see his way clear to bless the Republican Party the way
it's been carrying on, then the rest of us ought to get it without even
asking."
- Will Rogers