wakingup

Dictatorships won't stop until we dump the dictators.

Dictatorships that allow their people limited freedom to speak and
organize can be overthrown by their own people. However, some
dictatorships can't be stopped from within.

No modern totalitarian dictatorship, with its several layers of secret
police and an elaborate system of terror and repression, has ever been
overthrown without overwhelming outside help.

Why get rid of dictators? First, everyone has a right to be free.
Dictatorships also are more prone to wars of aggression and mass
murder than democracies. In fact, in the entire 20th century, no two
democracies went to war with each other. And in those same 100 years,
dictators (start with Mao, Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot) killed more of
their own people than all the world's wars combined.

Lesson: The world would be safer with more democracies. The openness
and accountability of democracies makes them infinitely better
protectors of lives and liberty.

The most dangerous form of government is a totalitarian dictatorship
with nuclear weapons. Once a dictator has nuclear weapons, the
outside world cannot respond to his human rights abuses or to his
attacks on other nations without risking millions of casualties.

Lesson: Keep down the number of dictators, and keep nuclear weapons
away from the dictators in power.

Only when all the world is free and democratic can all nations
seriously talk about universal nuclear disarmament. And only then can
the world stop wasting its energy making excuses for dictators and use
its collective imagination debating how to educate, feed, house and
care for all people in freedom.

Frank Warner

pope dilbert

First of all, I hope you're including Bush in that statement!
Secondly - we have as much "right" to interfere in the internal politics of
another nation as they have to interfere with ours.

One of the nations that FOUGHT Nuclear disarmament WAS the United States!
When we did talk about disarmament - it was only to include out of date
items - and creating limits on items we had in abundance. We NEVER allowed
for independent inspections.

jas

Your arguments are as wrong as they are seductive.

First, what gives us the right to decide who will rule in which country?

Second, a fine example we provide. We are currently ruled by a president
who stole an election after he realized that the lost the popular vote by
almost 500,000 votes.

Third, our record in tossing out dictators is not exactly something to be
proud of. For example, if we were to toss out dictators wherever they may
be, then we should have tossed out:
-- Pinochet in Chile
-- Chiang Kai-shek in China
-- The Somozas in Nicaragua
-- and many others too numerous to mention.

The world is a messy place. Get over it.

--
----
JAS

robert

You forgot about Batista in Cuba (why do you think we have Castro)

jeffrey turner

OK, name one nation other than Germany and Japan where the US
has EVER helped set up a democracy. Then try to list all the
nations where the US helped overthrow a democratic government
and/or put in place a dictatorship.

--Jeff

tcarr13397

"Altar boy Dilbert" <Vatican@NYC.com


Why would he altar boy? Bush was elected in 2000, and you get
another chance in 2004

Like the internal politics of Korea in the 1950's, or Serbia in the 1990's?

Bullshit altar boy. Try real history for a change.

We signed and abided to several arms reductions agreements. Unless
you care to cite your claims for a change your clains about obsolete
items appear to be political BS
We NEVER allowed


That must be why weapons and systems are sitting out exposed in the
desert, destroyed, and readily visible with satellite surveilance.


T.Carr

thomandpam

one of the reasons these people are waring is arguments like this.
Who gets to be a Mula is the main difference between Shiet and Suni
Muslims as I understand it.

You have to keep in mind that Iranians are not Arabs and do not have
the Arab mindset. In fact they are part of that vast majority of
Muslims that have a common hatred.... that of the Arabs.

Both had US support in the beginning.


At what number does a good Pinochet become a bad Pinochet???

Well you'll find thats ame fear in Malysia under "the good doctor"
plus Singapore and Indonesia. Please remember how many East Timorese
the Indonesian TIA murdered in East Timore both before and especially
after the elections for separation.

Not to defend Saddam Who****s but he allowed freedoms too and unlike
Chile, Australia, the UK and America there was no gun control. We
have constitutional protections yet I'm treated like a criminal if I
go into a gun store to buy a magzine!!! Whats next a 5 days waiting
period if I want a copy of Shotgun News??? Bush lied thru his teeth
when he promised us an end to this nazi gun control stuff.

So did Saddam but he stepped down with $2.5 billion in his carpet bag! :-)

That is not a quality of communism, socialism or capitalism.
Dictators from all these economic schools have been seen on earth.


Define a FREE VIETNAM? They are free, free of us, free of the French
and free of the Chinese. You have to remember that they were fighting
for over 300 years and for the first time in that long in 1973 they
were a single country running their own affairs. The backlash against
the old RVN government people and soldiers was terrible and a blot on
their history and they have a way to go in many areas but the country
is mostly at peace (except in the NUFLVN areas).

The problem discussing this is that you feel that our form of
government should be imposed on them. You are dealing with a 3000
year old Asian culture that may not wish to think or act as we do.
There are times when an intelligent, competent dictator was far better
than a democratically elected government.

Look at Burma, terrible right wing military dictatorship but the
streets are the cleanest in Asia (especially compared to Bang****).
If not having to think and you love clean streets then Burma is the
place to be, if you want a dog eat dog economic system, move to
Bang****.

What is important is that in Asia nothing moves quickly. Viet Nam is
moving carefully and within its resources. Its intellecual life is
growing and its economy is getting much better. Give it time. We
can't go storming in like Iraq and expect things to change over night.


so basically theres no difference between the ultra lefy and right.


well if you look at history you will see we nearly nuked them, invaded
them etc etc and its quite possible that the embargo may be the key to
those elections. Once the old Doctor sees that the threat is gone things might change.


so if everyone is that poor how does any afford a hooker with a PhD?

drop the embargo and lets see what happens. Couldn't be any worse
than the islands around Cuba. Puerto Rico is even poorer than Cuba!


may I remind you that our freedoms are going down the drain? Gun
control, the so called Patriot Acts, WACO and Ruby Hill, Homeland
Security Agency, the IRS, religious nuts telling us how many children
to have or stopping us from limiting the numbers, I could go on and
on. We worry about other people's freedoms while we're loosing our
own. Is having the FBI taping your phone or listening in on internat
mail any different than the KGB doing it???


OK lets look at that
Free elections: we don't elect our president and even the farce
election that is supposed to tell the college how to vote is a crooked
joke.
Free Opposition Parties: How many times did the FBI and CBI knock
down the doors of La Raza Unita or the American Communist party? Why
didn't the Green, Libertarian and Reform presidential candidates get
to debate Gore and Bush on TV?
Free press" Get real, there is no difference between a couple of rich
guys dictating policy for their papers than the government doing it.
Thank god for the internet is all I have to say.
Free Speech: ask Larry Flint about that, ask someone who does a real
art film about *** and or nudity or a stripper. Ask them about their
rights to be heard or seen?
Independant Courts: borderline especially with the stacking of the
Supreme Court by both parties in the last 30 years.

In 1965 I could get on a bus in Denver with a rifle in a case slung
over my shoulder and no one batted an eye lash except maybe a fellow
shooter wanting to know what you use. If you did that today the
Denver Ghestopo would have you in chains, in fact its even illegal to
drive thru Denver with your guns in your car going to the range!!!

And lets look at Eschelon. This little group monitors the internet
and all e-mail (I'm sure they are reading this now) using 117 key
words that trigger a human response. I'd say freedom of privacy is a joke now.


We are every day since Bush took the white house and look whats happened.

Most of them are half the time. My father had a tradition of always
voting against the people already in office and also said that when a
politician had his mouth open he was either eating, drinking expensive
booze paid for by the tax payers or lieing. :-)


again ask Larry Flint and other like him about his free speech problems.

well how many times have I heard Bush say things I couldn't and he
took it one step father and killed Saddams evil kids. What would
happen if the Bush brats were killed? Would it be any different? Its
just a matter of who'se OX is being gored I'd say. Look at those
assinine Arabs and Palistinians that were dancing in the streets after 911.

check with the vicitms of McCarthy and now the new McCarthyism.

Many would say that the Florida elections are a shame or because we
don't directly elect the PREZ our elections are a farce. I personally
want to see direct election with preferential voting.

You don't hear much but when you get outside the USA you do. The so
called US Free Press is quite censored. During the last election
Castro's party got 94% of the vote (91% block voted). The other
parties in Cuba are
Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (Social Democratic Co-ordination
of Cuba)
Corriente Socialista Democratica Cubana (Cuban Socialist Democratic
Current)
Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (Christian Democratic Party of
Cuba)
Partido Social-Revolucionario Democrático de Cuba (Democratic
Social-Revolutionary Party of Cuba)
Partido Solidaridad Democrática (Democratic Solidaity Party)
Unión Liberal Cubana (Cuban Liberal Union)

The last election was Feb 24th and was to fill Parliament. If you
wish to keep up on world elections I suggest
http://www.electionworld.org

I also suggest UCSD as an interesting source of data.
http://dodgson.ucsd.edu/las/cuba/1990-2001.htm
do***ents the changes in Cuba since 1990, its quite long. Some parts
like:
"Country report. Cuba August 2001: The next elections are due in
January 2003 (page 4). "At the next congress of the ruling Partido
Comunista de Cuba..., due to take place in 2002, the party's changing
role will be discussed...There is no sign that a more pluralist
multiparty system is being considered either by the leadership or by
the party, and there is little evidence at present of a strong clamour
for it from the population" (page 6).

OR

Prevost 2002: "There appears to be no significant pressure for serious
political reforms from either within Cuba's political establishment or
from the wider society" (page 352)."

are not encouraging to those of us who want to see a system closer to
our own. What I found interesting was the comment of no desire from
within the community. We like our way of life but its possible they
like there's too? We know certainly that the Cuban, Haitian and other
boat people from the Carribian are not happy but do they represent the
majority of the people? Simple answer is that we don't know.

The two quotes I have included from UCSD do not indicate a great rush
of reform in Cuba but I am encouraged by the fact that free elections
(albeit with limied parties) was held to refill their Parliament,
something that has not happened in many years.

I would say the lifting of the embargo would go a long way to helping
Cuba onto to the road to change. Keeping it will not.

THOM

garyxcui

The U.S. media say they are free and so they teach you, so you
believe.

They differ only by amount of freedom from that of Iraq.

Plus, we are counting on the objectivity rather than freedom of media.
They have interests and fears too.

Democracy is overrated, domestic democracy is likely to be the best
for a nation, but does not and is not supposed to reflect the
interests of all other nations. A majority of one nation can
democratically stand on one side and commit a huge crime.

So, nexttime, don't put WMD or terrorism or the worst: free-a-nation
tags before doing it.

BTW, when other don't believe what this nation has to say, we lose our
interests.

garyxcui

The U.S. media say they are free and so they teach you, so you
believe.

They differ only by amount of freedom from that of Iraq.

Plus, we are counting on the objectivity rather than freedom of media.
They have interests and fears too.

Democracy is overrated, domestic democracy is likely to be the best
for a nation, but does not and is not supposed to reflect the
interests of all other nations. A majority of one nation can
democratically stand on one side and commit a huge crime.

So, nexttime, don't put WMD or terrorism or the worst: free-a-nation
tags before doing it.

BTW, when other don't believe what this nation has to say, we lose our
interests.