william a. levinson

And invent the coffee shop, complete with crescent pastries!
http://www.polamjournal.com/Library/APHistory/coffee/body_coffee.html

"I recalled the well-known historical facts of the Polish King, Jan III
Sobieski (1624-1696), who on September 12, 1683, headed the Christian
coalition of Polish, German, French and Austrian armies and lifted the
lengthy Turkish siege at Vienna. The Moslem troops panicked at the sound
and fury of the heavy mounted, winged Polish Hussars' avalanche, and
frantically fled off the field of battle. [I guess they didn't want to
meet Allah and their 72 virgins that day.] On October 9 at Parkany,
Hungary, Sobieski won the decisive battle. Never again did the Islamic
military attempt to subjugate Europe."

"...Left behind were their command posts with maps, battle plans, armor,
cannons, tents, stables, kitchen fires, coins, jewels, food and bags of
Turkish coffee beans. Despite their forced swift evacuation, the Turks
killed most of their concubines and camp followers, lest they fall into
the hands of the Christian infidels. By evening, the battle was over and
Sobieski relaxed in the Turkish Grand Vizier's magnificent tent."

--Bill

http://www.omdurman.org/

jrbadura

**********************
Bill
In all due respect - Polish defending a decadent Europe is a fatal
mistake.
Poles should have shown Turks a direction to Berlin, Paris and London
providing them with good horses, food and extra soldiers.

Would it not be nice to see "Brits" swimming the Atlantic.
Maybe we smarten one day.

JAck

johannes ervin

Nett abgeschrieben aus alten (!) Geschichtsbüchern.

Aber leider nur zum Teil durch Fakten bestätigt. Einzig, dass das abziehende
(nicht flüchtende) Heer die alten Schwachen und die Frauen tötete - um ihnen
ein sehr viel schlimmeres Ende unter den "Christen" zu ersparen.
Kaffee war bereits 20 Jahre vor der Türkenbelagerung in Wien bekannt und
beliebt.
Und das Entsatzheer wurde vom Polnischen König geleitet, aber nur ein
Bruchteil der Soldaten war Polen. Es war ein europäisches Heer zu dem sich
die Herrscher Euroas entschlossen hatten.
(Nebenbei hätte es bereits 2 Tage früher in Wien sein können, wenn Sobieski
nicht noch seine Conkubine hätte besuchen müssen ...)

ArFein

binyamin dissen

Can someone translate Mr. David Goldmans post?

:>Nett abgeschrieben aus alten (!) Geschichtsbüchern.
:>Aber leider nur zum Teil durch Fakten bestätigt. Einzig, dass das abziehende
:>(nicht flüchtende) Heer die alten Schwachen und die Frauen tötete - um ihnen
:>ein sehr viel schlimmeres Ende unter den "Christen" zu ersparen.
:>Kaffee war bereits 20 Jahre vor der Türkenbelagerung in Wien bekannt und
:>beliebt.
:>Und das Entsatzheer wurde vom Polnischen König geleitet, aber nur ein
:>Bruchteil der Soldaten war Polen. Es war ein europäisches Heer zu dem sich
:>die Herrscher Euroas entschlossen hatten.
:>(Nebenbei hätte es bereits 2 Tage früher in Wien sein können, wenn Sobieski
:>nicht noch seine Conkubine hätte besuchen müssen ...) --
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

helmut wabnig

Re: what?

No Goldman post on my news server.

could you post the text again....

w.
--
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william a. levinson

Per Babelfish.altavista.com

"Nicely copied from old (!) historical books. But confirms unfortunately
only partially by facts. Only that the taking off (not fleeing) army
killed the old weak ones and the women - over them a very much worse end
among the "Christians" to save."

I think the Turks killed their women and camp followers to avoid having
them rescued by the Christians.

"Coffee was already 20 years before the Turk siege in Vienna admitted
and likes. And the relief army was led by the Polish king, but only a
fraction of the soldiers was Poland. It was a European army to that the
rulers Euroas had decided. (besides it could have been already 2 days in
former times in Vienna, if Sobieski had not had to visit still its
Conkubine...) ArFein"

The Polish relief force did include soldiers of other nations, although
it was apparently the impact of the Husaria that decided the battle.
This was not unusual.

--Bill
http://www.omdurman.org/