asj

well, at least for the forseeable future, it looks like.

i've always thought mauricio aguilar was a loony for continuing to post
these job stats, when we all know C#/.NET jobs HAVE to go up sometime
and equalize as VB and other non-.NET microsoft tech jobs go down.

also, search engines can frequently be misused, so i tend to go with
guys who actually COUNT by eye if possible (as a guy below did).

here's the relevant stats:

"This list is picked up from dice.com on 11.04.2003.
"Numbers show job offerings in last 30 days with no other restrictions:

1. Java - 4355
2. J2EE - 4227
3. Unix - 4173
4. SQL - 3989
5. C++ - 3888
6. Oracle - 3676
7. ASP - 3309
8. Windows - 2940
9. C - 2587
10. SQL Server - 1916
11. Basic - 1874
12. VB - 1670
13. HTML - 1317
14. DBA - 1198
15. DB2 - 1021
16. Perl - 979
17. Mainframe - 874
18. PL/SQL - 790
19. Linux - 781
20. WebSphere - 688
21. PHP - 647
22. Sybase - 645
23. WebLogic - 545
24. Cisco - 478
25. C# - 358
26. Apache - 244
27. JMS - 105
28. Informix - 101
29. Tomcat - 77
30. Delphi - 74
31. MySQL - 60
32. .NET - 17

http://www.theserverside.com/discussion/thread.jsp?thread_id=18821
http://www.javalobby.org/thread.jsp?forum=61&thread=8513


some fast comments:

(1) i am rather surprised by the high UNIX and low Linux/Windows
(2) the apparent low demand for mysql is surprising.
(3) the apparent death in the .NET hype will hopefully give way to more
objective views on the advantages (and disadvantages) of c# and .NET

here's one guy (C. Thompson) who actually COUNTED by eye instead of
using a search engine:

-------------------------------------------------

My *very* unscientific random examination of Dice listings for
developers in the Silicon Valley seems to show about 9 jobs requiring
Java/J233 for each listing that wanted C# or .Net. By 'examination' of
the listings, I mean actually reading the text of individual listings.
That squares with what I have been hearing from colleagues around the
Bay Area. It seemed like there was a lot of interest in the .Net
framework about 2 years ago, I know I spent some time boning up on it
myself 2 years ago. Since then the buzz has died down quite a bit. I
think this is due to two things: 1) After trying out simple programs in
C#, people seemed to conclude it was *so* similar to Java, that one
could defer any learning time to when it might be truly needed, and 2)
the Java universe is just too rich to ignore, especially the Open Source
offerings. When you can download a component or framework for *free*,
with no purchase justifications, license hassles, etc. that's pretty
hard to beat. Being able to download multiple competing Java solutions
in an afternoon, keep the one you like and delete the rest, is just too
good a deal to walk away from.

---------------------------------------------------

asj

is it just me, or is that a ridiculously high number for "UNIX", and low
numbers for Linux/Windows?

nospam

First of all, you are using DICE. BAD. Very bad.

Why? cause DICE is full of easily threatened recruiters who have very little
skills to fall back on if they can't talk on the phone.

Next, DICE went bankrupt last year.

Second, if you call DICE and ask how much it costs to post a job, you are
requested to check back every week as the prices
change...translation...."they are barely making it"

I bet DICE is allowing recruiters to post more bogus jobs just to get
resumes and the sort. Also DICE is allowing recruiters to reset or somehow
repost their listings....

YOu can see 26k jobs, which is totally out of whack....fluctuates between
24k to 26k....it used to be around 18k

Using DICE is pure spitting into the wind.......YOu can't even compare
cities as one to two recruiting agencies can easily skew results. I seen
the exact same .NET job for over 6 months....complete lie..reposted over and
over again with some modifications.

asj

yeah, but what does that have to do with the stats? such explanations
above would not explain the deviations seen in the stats.

and let it not be said that aguilar is not a persistent bugger...here's
more stats, this time from monster.com, which confirms trends:

* i'm surprised at how Perl fares in both cases...i thought perl was
passe already? LOL

http://www.javalobby.org/thread.jsp?forum=61&thread=8503

Java = 3912
Servlet + Servlets = 3482
C++ = 2433
J2EE = 1515
Perl = 1306
JSP + Java Server Pages = 1139
C++ and Java = 1025 (42% of the jobs posted for C++ developers)
C# + C sharp = 700
ASP.Net + ASP .Net = 568
PHP = 505
VB.Net + VB .Net + Visual Basic.Net + Visual Basic .Net = 467
C# and Java = 205 (30% of the jobs posted for C# developers)
Visual Studio.Net + Visual Studio .Net = 143
Phyton = 95

asj

well, silicon valley is in the usa, but i believe there are rumors
california will secede from the union once Arnold
Schwarzenegger rises to power, and form the "People's Awesome Republic
of California".

lluck98

I've posted on this before, but I'm still not convinced you can get an
accurate picture unless you look at several separate independent
statistics. I also agree that .NET, and specially VB.NET, jobs should
increase over time, although I am not sure by how fast, and whether it
can keep up with the supply (although the lessening of the hype should
lessen the negative impact of this difference between demand and
supply).

This is also the first list I've seen where there are detailed
examples of databases and OS. Interesting, but I am also curious about
the large percentage of Unix references, instead of Linux or Windows.

asj

well, i added the monster.com list in another post, which seems to
correlate well with the dice.com stats.

here's another one from germany (T. Lehne):

"Here are results from another source, http://www.gulp.de, which is a German
database for freelance projects."

Java - 77
C++ - 72
..Net - 13 (originally 16, but 3 were bad results)
DotNet - 1
Visual Basic - 29
VisualBasic - 9
VB - 8
C# - 4
Csharp - 0
J++ - 0
J# - 0

asj

i read once that once you reach upper 30s or 40s, you should move on to
a managerial type position or architect or something....programming is
for the young, maybe? only the young have the tenacity to stick at it
for long periods of time?

i too got tired of programming all the time...now i spend a lot of time
architecting on the server side (but i LOVE programming small devices,
which is all new to me still).

john bailo

bottom line: dotnet failed to stop java

too old, too late, not enough

asj

well, i was sorting through some javablogs, and what do you know, i saw
this interesting post:

http://www.manageability.org/blog/stuff/do_you_want_to_be

"Tim Bray has a very insightful piece about the economics of being a
"Sharecropper". Unfortunately, he digresses and talks a lot about the
value of simplified interfaces."

"Strategically speaking a software product developer isn't in a good
position if he's a sharecropper. However, it doesn't mean it's a bad
tactic. Many times its the only way to get a start. Not everyone has
the money to buy a farm when they start out. The key though is to
remember as a sharecropper you're working on borrowed time."