douglas

The Seattle Area Pick Users Group has scheduled a combined meeting with
the National Revalations Users Conference being held in Seattle late
this month.

I had just decided to not bother going, when this announcement came
out.

Years ago, I was quite a fan of AREV. I thought the concept was great.
I just never had any clients that wanted to use it.

Now, I'm thinking seriously of dropping by the conference and seeing
first hand this generation of multi-value users.

ross ferris

Years ago did AREV have "environmental bonding" for UV?

The simple answer is No. It was started and after I left it was
*completed* but the person running the company was squashing anything
that might, to paraphrase (or rip off) Nirvana 'Smells like PICK' <G>

It wasn't until Michael Ruane got Revelation Software that anyone other
than us old 'pickies' understood that there was a good mix between OI
and the other MV products.

Michael had the U2 bond resurrected and there you go.

DTSIg

<snip>

wrote a cute reply yesterday but it appears to have been lost in the
google 'maintenance' .. so

1) I believe that JOI is best described as a RAD tool for java. It is
not specific to OpenInsight but connects to other environments. Pretty
sweet tool. And yes Virginia there is an install base

2) Revelation was written against PRIME (didn't see PRIME on your chart
but might have just missed it).
3) you wrote

or only be the name of a tool set, while the database is perhaps named
Revelation.

No .. unlike the other 'pick-a-like' environments Revelation has always
given developers and users the tools to use their databases. OI has a
database engine and a full set of UI and reporting tools. I the
original days it was Rdesign, in Arev it was PAINT and the Window
processor and in OI it is a full set of graphical UI tools. Note that
OI works the same in Linux as it does in Windows. The same templates
in Windows work in Linux with no changes.

Unlike many of the other 'pick-a-likes' OI is modular enough to work
with other environments not only in the traditional sense (ODBC etc)
but also directly connect to the environments using Environmental
Bonding. This allows the 'filing system' to re-route to any other
environment. This has been available since Rev-g (approx 1987 ?).
3) you wrote

person can pay for a license today? Would that be AREV (or Advanced
Revelation) and OpenInsight?

There are 3 basic database products available.

a) Revelation ver. G -- this is the last version of the original
product
b) Arev 3.12 -- this is the last version of the second
generation product
c) OpenInsight 7.x -- this is the current version of OpenInsight
(soon to be 8.0)

The new announcements are for 'options' to OpenInsight.

U2 bond is an environmental bond which allows OpenInsight developers to
create applications which Read/Write/Query U2 data just as if it was
native OpenInsight data.

Arev32 is a UI option. Arev was a DOS product and so was a basic dos
screen (just like most pickies are used to green screen). This option
allows Arev32 applications to run in the windows world by having a 'dos
like screen' for the display of all print/input process and using
OpenInsight for the backend.

This brings all the original functionality of Arev and adds it to
OpenInsights functionalities.

One of the big problems is that being a DOS product Arev is finding it
harder and harder to work in a Windows world. Windows support for dos
has changed (and in fact going away) and hardware mfg are using up
memory used in the dos world for expanded memory.

So this gives those apps new life.

hope this helps

Dsig

<snip>
<snip>

wrote a cute reply yesterday but it appears to have been lost in the
google 'maintenance' .. so

1) I believe that JOI is best described as a RAD tool for java. It is
not specific to OpenInsight but connects to other environments. Pretty
sweet tool. And yes Virginia there is an install base

2) Revelation was written against PRIME (didn't see PRIME on your chart
but might have just missed it).
3) you wrote


or only be the name of a tool set, while the database is perhaps named
Revelation.

No .. unlike the other 'pick-a-like' environments Revelation has always
given developers and users the tools to use their databases. OI has a
database engine and a full set of UI and reporting tools. I the
original days it was Rdesign, in Arev it was PAINT and the Window
processor and in OI it is a full set of graphical UI tools. Note that
OI works the same in Linux as it does in Windows. The same templates
in Windows work in Linux with no changes.

Unlike many of the other 'pick-a-likes' OI is modular enough to work
with other environments not only in the traditional sense (ODBC etc)
but also directly connect to the environments using Environmental
Bonding. This allows the 'filing system' to re-route to any other
environment. This has been available since Rev-g (approx 1987 ?).
3) you wrote


person can pay for a license today? Would that be AREV (or Advanced
Revelation) and OpenInsight?

There are 3 basic database products available.

a) Revelation ver. G -- this is the last version of the original
product
b) Arev 3.12 -- this is the last version of the second
generation product
c) OpenInsight 7.x -- this is the current version of OpenInsight
(soon to be 8.0)

The new announcements are for 'options' to OpenInsight.

U2 bond is an environmental bond which allows OpenInsight developers to
create applications which Read/Write/Query U2 data just as if it was
native OpenInsight data.

Arev32 is a UI option. Arev was a DOS product and so was a basic dos
screen (just like most pickies are used to green screen). This option
allows Arev32 applications to run in the windows world by having a 'dos
like screen' for the display of all print/input process and using
OpenInsight for the backend.

This brings all the original functionality of Arev and adds it to
OpenInsights functionalities.

One of the big problems is that being a DOS product Arev is finding it
harder and harder to work in a Windows world. Windows support for dos
has changed (and in fact going away) and hardware mfg are using up
memory used in the dos world for expanded memory.

So this gives those apps new life.

hope this helps

Dsig

dawn

rats, I like cute ;-)


Good, because I spoke with those guys a few years ago and thought they
were doing some clever things.


You definitely missed it. In fact, I didn't put much hardware on the
chart, but I included a Pr1me and also colored it with orange and brown
as appropriate for the early Pr1mes (I started on a P300, before PI was on the Pr1me).


Such snobbery! ;-)
I think you mean that the toolset with Revelation is GUI and has more
tools than the character Pick-a-like developer interfaces. All MV
environments include tools, BASIC and the query language.

So you end up installing the complete OI product, database and all, and
then have something in your run-time environment configured so that
writes go only to U2 instead of to the Rev data store?

Yes, I opted not to include that one because I didn't think that it was
still being distributed except on an exceptional basis, but perhaps it
is more like mvEnterprise where you don't get new VARs using it, but
you might get customers of VARs who are using it needing to license the
product for the first time (or adding seats)? I would prefer to
consider it a retired product unless it is not considered such.

I think that I should have included Arev or AREV (if you know which is
more correct, let me know) on the poster and not JOI

Yes, I will keep that on there.

Yes, very good. Is Cache' or OpenQM next?


Hmmm. In that case, it sounds somewhat like these product names are
variations on the front-end while the database itself is or could be
the same for someone using Arev and OI? Maybe I should just have a
single "database" called Revelation (which has, of course, had many
versions over time, but I don't include UniData 4.1, 5.0, 6.1, and 7.1
all on the chart)


OK, so you consider that OI is then the "database" being used with Arev
the UI. That makes me think that we are down to just one current
database product, with several current UIs (Arev, OI, and JOI).

It helps a bunch -- thanks so much! --dawn

dtsig

<SNIP>


Not a GUI .. no graphics as such in dos. I think the big difference is
that john could buy Revealtion or Arev and create pretty functional
apps without learning an real code.

I don't really consider basic (or any programming language) a tool.
but you say tomato and i say pepperoni


You do install OI which has the window designer, reporter etc but you
can build a runtime that really only has the engine and the bits your
application needs. no development tools.

The U2 configuration tool allows you to define the location, login info
etc of your U2 server. You can create an app that only writes to U2 ..
kind of. Oi creates shadow dictionaries which make the process much faster.


yes. it is available but then we could all work in cobal for windows
<G>


Well it is Advanced Revelation but Arev or AREV .. either should be fine


as far as i know there is nothing in the works at this time. BUT if
someone would like it and is willing to put in a little work I am sure
that Michael would be interested in talking to them. The question
would be .. is there some programming layer for talking to it and if
there is how much work is it to connect?

Arev32 is more of a UI option. The database engine itself is
OpenInsight, but the differences are not as trivial as a version change
(UniData 4.1, 5.0, 6.1, and 7.1). The same holds true for the CTO
product. The base line engine is OpenInsight but it looks nothing like
it while you are in the CTO environment.


That is close.

Probably the easiest way to look at is is

OpenInsight is a database and set of graphical tools. There are
optional UIs available for it (arev32, CTO). There are also optional
Environmental Bonds available (u2, sql, i even know a guy in england
who wrote one for db2 i believe)


dtsig