Very well put!

in article 3F1F1978.453AFA5D@ameritel.net, Pat Kohli at


Now I wonder why a little ole guy like George Fleming wanted to go and do a
thing like that? Never mind having no *LEGAL* control over who posts to any
of the 42 000 unmoderated forums, the Bahai Faith has no control over who
sweeps the streets in Haifa Isreal. Holy Kohli and Susie Manic thinks the
New World Order has arrived and the UHJ has put them in charge of TRB.

God help their wit George Fleming is still here, and His ISP who is REALLY
IN CHARGE never even sent him a single warning letter. But the Baha i AO did
and he told them to stuff their membership up Kohli and Maneck's arses.

Errol

Ye Gods! I have waited years to hear sense from the DST and my patience has
been rewarded at long last! I hope this develops into a trend otherwise it
will just be a case of an infinite number of monkeys, an infinite number of
typewriters and a great deal of optimism that the Works of Shakespeare will
emerge.

Greetings;

Economists disagree on whether it is spending (ie tax breaks for the
poor) or investment (tax breaks for the rich), which "pumps up" the
economy.
Likely, it is the right proportion of both.
While rich people pay 90% of all income taxes, poorer people (and
middle-class wage earners) tend to pay the most in "consumption taxes"
(sales tax, license fees, etc) as a proportion of their income. The
middle-class is by far the most overtaxed group in comparison to the
services given them.
The very wealthy actually tend to be in favor of higher taxes and more
regulation, despite their public protestations.
The reason? These tend to drive out upstart businesses, which are the
real challengers to the rich. H&R Block lobbies for more complex
corporate tax laws. Manufacturers lobby for onerous regulation. And
of course, lawyers thrive on these. Middle-class business owners
simply cannot afford the legal fees generated by these regulations.
I know several small business owners who say that they could expand
their businesses (and hire more workers!) were it not for the endless
fees and licenses (and compliance costs) which rob them of needed
capital.
No wonder economics is called the "dismal science."
===============

Greetings;

Susan, I agree with what you say as far as it goes.
But there are some important distinctions to make, and certain
definitions which are important to understanding taxation.
First, Social Security was never intended to become a tax. It was
intended that every penny be returned to the "investor." Actuarial
ethics were supposed to have ensured this.
But as the billions of dollars in the fund grew, politicians started
doling out the cash to people who had never invested it, for purposes
never intended, in order to curry political favor at your expense.
The actuaries gave up ever trying to keep up. If a corporate pension
fund were to do this, the administrators would be in jail.
As it now happens, there is no money in the social security fund.
(There are only treasury bills, which means that your grandchildren
will be taxed to pay these debts.) Every penny has been looted to pay
current operating costs of the federal government. These future
liabilities are "off the books," so they never show up in the national
debt--- again, a private corporation would be prosecuted for this sort
of deception.
Finally, there are invisible taxes and costs of government which you
never see, but which cost you dearly not only in money, but in
foregone opportunities. When the government buys goods and services,
it is using your money to compete with you for the purchase of these
same goods and services (vehicles, furniture, housing, etc). Since
the government is not as careful with your money as you would be, it
drives prices up. Every businessman knows that, if he can get a
government contract (by bidding low), he can make a fortune in "cost
overruns."
The only way to get this under control is to gut the government's
ability and authority to spend money on anything except those which
are strictly, explicitly, Constitutionally mandated. (The "general
welfare" clause does not negate the other Constitutional limits and
restraints on government). It's not the taxes that are killing us, so
much, but the spending.
==========

Greetings;

I don't think Eric is merely speculating.
Never before in history has it been feasible for a truly world-wide
government to be put in place. To "envision" this as some distant
future prospect centuries hence does not remove the more immediate
possibilty. And that possibility is now technologically,
sociologically and economically evident. All that remains is for the
political will to manifest itself, and there are signs of that, too.
Baha'i involvement with the UN is no small matter, and the UN is
currently the most likely predecessor to a world-wide government.
As in any authoritarian, unaccountable governing body, the Baha'is
have demonstrated that they are as likely as anyone else to abuse
power, to oppress dissenters, and to treat "covenant breakers" in the
manner prophesied in The Revelation (that no man could buy or sell
save he that had the mark of the beast).
Would that Eric's forebodings were mere speculation!
===========

news:<bfkgov$ark$2@hercules.btinternet.com>...


Or a country, government and citizenry that is so full of shit, it tolerates
the deaths of 11000 of its citizens every year from gunshot wounds.

Except that 11000 citizens pay for this privilege with their lives.

We are quite different. Everybody has rights and nobody has the right to
interfere with everybody's rights. The fundamental right is life. In a
civilised society the right to life cannot co-exist with the right of every
plonker to carry firearms. Your society and our society regulates the right
to drive a motor vehicle - guns are more deadly yet your society will not
regulate their use and ownership. You place your right to bear arms above
the right to life of your fellow citizens, 11000 of whom pay for your right
every year with their lives. Something like 80 people a year in the UK die
from gunshot wounds. we regulate firearms - you don't! We are sensible!
You are stupid!

As for accountability - we rely on elections and abide by their results!
You're obviously far too immature to do this!


Your knowledge of economics needs a lot of input. You can eliminate gross
poverty with a decent welfare programme. To do this you need to be less
selfish and to recognise that the poorest are often those least endowed with
the ability to practise the virtues you advocate.

Poor communities benefit from government investment in infrastructure - the
tyupe of investment the industrilaist never considers. Why should he go to
a poor community and have to pay for infrastructure when he can go to a rich
one and not have to pay? The result is that the poor get poorer and the
rich get richer. But then that's American values - greed and avarice!

We're different - we think money was made round to go round and it makes for
a better community if nobody is hungry or homeless.


Strangely my Canadian relatives and friends do not corroborate this. And as
for the ineffectiveness and inefficiency of our Health Services - an
American nurse working here whilst her husband trained in Phsiotherapy
(apparently our training is a lot better than in the US) told me that the
Regional Paediatric Intensive Care Unit in the Royal Belfast Hospital for
Sick Children, which serves a population of over 1.5 million was streets
ahead of anything she had seen in the US.

Your insurance companies make their profits because they only insure the
healthy - those least likely to claim. The rest of the population can go
feck itself. That's American values!

That's American values! Who gives a shit about the poor buggers on death row!


A republican President and Congress!

We pay more tax than you and we get the service for it. We have a degree of
fiscal responsibility in government for starters. Then we have a good
health service, a welfare system that looks after the elderly, the disabled,
the sick etc., good toll-free roads free of potholes, heavily regulated
utilities (if you have a power out here for more than 24 hours you have to
be compensated), a freedom from garish billboards on every road, public
service broadcasting of a pretty high standard and free of advertising, etc
etc. The Police in Britain and the Republic of Ireland are unarmed. Very
different values and very different ways of seeing and doing things. I
think you can keep your American values. I personally prefer to belong to a
community than a state of chaos where the individual is paramount and its's
"Man, mind thyself and look after Numero Uno!"

So there is hope!

Our


Yup! That's American values - greed and avarice and to hell with everybody
else!

God help you!

Keynesian economic theory (the New Deal being a classic example) teaches
that investment creates wealth and jobs. the income from the jobs fuels
consumption which maintains the jobs and gives the return on the investment.


I doubt very much that rich people pay 90% of all income taxes. The very
rich tend to have their money in tax avoidance schemes which minimise the
burden. It is the middle and lower classes (the workers) who pay most. Out
tax system is designed to encourage upward mobility with low top rates of
tax and to help the lower income families with tax rebates for those with children.


Maybe you ought to follow our example and provide subsidies for businesses
setting up in economically deprived and depressed areas. That works and
alleviates labour shortages in the richer areas.


Only in a purely capitalist society like yours! We temper our economics with compassion!

news:<20030724003511.00899.00000301@mb-m22.aol.com>...

Yes, with all the charges and counter-charges during the campaign, it is almost impossible to figure out who really
has done what.

Blessings!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net

This is true only for federal tax in the US. Tax avoidance in the US was
made more difficult by the minimum alternative tax, though prior to that tax
abuses and tax shelter's abounded.

Cheers, Randy

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