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1 9th July 16:11
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Default witches and abortion(child sacrifice) (sacrifice abortion devil energy hell)

Child Sacrifice in the New Age: Salem's Witch Cult and America's
Abortion Industry
By Jay Rogers

MELBOURNE, Florida - Patricia Baird-Windle, founder and executive
director of Aware Woman Center for Choice, has been in the national
media spotlight recently. A featured guest on Good Morning America and
the subject of a Rolling Stone magazine article, she has gained her
notoriety through being portrayed as the embattled owner of Brevard
County, Florida's only abortion clinic. Rolling Stone portrayed Windle
as a suffering saint and "one of the most persecuted women in
America." Local pro-lifers were painted as a movement led "almost
entirely by white men" who "fit the Son of Sam profile."1 Media
coverage hasn't been exactly unbiased.

In resisting the abortion industry in the state of Florida, some local
pro-life activists have repeatedly come across statements from
residents in the Melbourne area linking Patricia Baird-Windle to
witchcraft. Area pro-lifers claim that Windle has stated: "You
practice your religion and let me practice mine." When asked what her
religion was, Windle is alleged to have remarked: "My religion is a
holy ritual of child sacrifice."

If comments made by Windle were off-the-cuff, then most people would
dismiss these allegations as the "hysteria of the religious right."
However, further investigative research has shown that there is a
strong connection between the Aware Woman abortion clinic and a cult
of witches called Wicca. As we view the ties between the Wiccan
organization and the abortion industry, the conclusion will become
obvious: The promotion of abortion is not just a political issue for
members of Wicca; it is part of a religious agenda - the religion of
witchcraft and child sacrifice.

Wiccan Religious Cooperative of Florida

The city of Melbourne is just one example of the growing national
connection between the abortion industry and the religion of
witchcraft. An employee of Aware Woman, Veronica Jordan, and a former
employee, Rebecca Morris, are two of the six founding directors of a
registered non-profit religious corporation known as the Wiccan
Religious Cooperative of Florida (WRCF). The WRCF lists a post office
box in Orlando as its principal address, and is attempting to network
witches' covens throughout central Florida. One group working closely
with WRCF is the Church of the Iron Oak. They meet weekly for "Wiccan
Ways," a teaching seminar at 1220 East Prospect Street, Melbourne, and
for rituals in a backyard of a dead end street at 2027 Mattison Drive
NE, Palm Bay.

Air, Fire, Water & Earth, a New Age book shop at 795 S. Wickham Road,
West Melbourne, functions as another meeting place for local Wiccans.
Activities of the WRCF have taken place at the Unitarian Universalist
Fellowship of Melbourne. Practicing witches in Melbourne are also
members of Project Response (a homo***ual/AIDS activist group) and
South Brevard National Organization for Women (NOW). They are
politically active, own profitable businesses, and universally support
abortion on demand in America.

A newsletter published eight times a year, Open Circle, informs area
"Wiccans and Pagans" about upcoming events and describes the
activities of Church of the Iron Oak. Veronica Jordan's post office
box (P.O. Box 060192, Palm Bay, FL 32906) is the mailing address for
Open Circle. The editors take pseudonyms - "Lord Shelandera," "Dahud,"
and "Lady Rowana" - the supposed names of pagan gods and goddesses.

The January 1993 issue of Open Circle described WRCF's founding: "A
year ago the dream of an umbrella group under which many covens would
function and be committed to peace and harmony 'For The Good Of All,'
was just that, a dream. But now it is a reality and a very, very big
part of the lives of many people. Five board members with a sixth as a
mediator made a commitment to five years of donating time to a Wiccan
umbrella group ... Teaching, which was started by three people in
Orlando in the summer of 1991 is really the first 'order of business'
of WRCF ... The first class in Brevard County shares teaching
responsibility among six Elders and also had nearly 40 students
registered this past October."

This particular issue, published the same month that Operation
Rescue's IMPACT team began its training course in Melbourne, alerted
area Wiccans and Pagans to the spiritual warfare that they would soon
be facing. "Dahud" explains that "... steps are being taken to protect
not only Aware Woman, but a woman's right to choose. Work is being
done mundanely, financially, and magically, to help get through the
next few months and beyond."

Readers of Open Circle are exhorted to become "clinic escorts" -
pro-abortion activists who eagerly escort pregnant women entering the
abortion clinic. Clinic escorts distract the women from pro-life
sidewalk counselors who try to hand them literature and counsel them
not to have an abortion. Undoubtedly, many of Aware Woman's "clinic
escorts" are practicing witches. Readers of Open Circle are also told
how they can help fund the South Brevard National Organization of
Woman's program to help low income women have abortions.

Wiccans are also encouraged to work their magic on the area
surrounding the clinic: "Finally, many individuals and groups have
been helping to magically (sic) protect the building and property ...
This has been done by magical and psychic shielding being put on and
around the property...."

The phone number of Aware Woman is given and the following guidelines
are suggested: "If you want to do magical work to protect the clinic,
please, please, do it with perfect love and trust. Our goal is to
protect the clinic, the staff, and the patients from those who want to
force their views on them. Please keep in mind the Harm None Clause
and make your work defensive in nature."

And just what is the "Harm None Clause" to which Wiccans refer?
According to Laurie Cabot, founder of the Witches League for Public
Awareness in Salem, Massachusetts, the Wiccan craft is based on three
principles, the first being: "Do what you will and harm none."2
Christians whose actions uphold the moral law of God found in the
Bible (You shall not murder) are "those who want to force their views"
on society. Apparently, the Wiccan "Harm None" clause does not apply
to the life of the unborn child.

Wiccan Ways

In researching Wiccan festivals and worship, we sent two college
students to one of the "Wiccan Ways" weekly meetings in Melbourne.
Upon arriving for the first class, they were greeted with suspicion by
their hosts: "How old are you? If you're ********, you can't attend
this class. If you are under 18 years of age, your parents could bring
suit against us." They were charged $3.50 each for the hour-and-a-half
long seminar. After the meeting with the Wiccan teaching group and
study of literature obtained at the seminar, we were able to obtain
answers to questions we had about Wicca.

How many Wiccans are there? Conservative reckonings estimate that
there are 200,000 Witches in the United States.

How does Wicca gain followers? In order to be initiated into a coven,
a year or more of training is usually required. The movement grows
through networking and outreach. Some Wiccans travel throughout the
United States as folk musicians or teachers, promoting the movement by
visiting covens, singing and teaching at festivals.

What happens at Wiccan festivals? Wiccan festivals or Sabbats occur
eight times a year: four times on the solstices and equinoxes; and
four earth holidays between these times. This is a time of dancing and
celebration; sometimes a skit is performed to honor the god or goddess
being worshipped.

What happens at Wiccan rituals? Full moon and new moon rituals occur
each month and involve consecration of a ritual space and the
invocation of pagan gods. Ceremonial stone rings are created and fires
are lit. The difference between the two was summarized by the Wiccan
Ways' teacher: "Festivals are for fun; rituals are for worship."
Members of Wicca were encouraged to bring family and friends to their
Sabbat festivals, but the worship rituals were off limits to the
uninitiated. Wiccans believe that their spells and rituals have their
greatest effect on these holidays.

Do Wiccans worship Satan? From a biblical viewpoint, witches do
worship Satan. Although witches claim not to believe in the Christian
concept of Satan, they do worship "the European Pagan Horned God, who
has been depicted as Pan.... Our Horned God is neither evil nor a
source of evil; He is the energy of nature, of plant and animal life,
which energy manifests for people in music and dance, intoxication and
ecstasy, and all joyous activities, including lovemaking."3

What about bloodletting? Although Wiccans deny using animal and human
sacrifices in their rituals they do admit that they "pour out
libations ... Some female Witches use their own menstrual blood in
spells; other witches may prick themselves ... and offer a drop or two
of their own blood. But the only blood a Witch has the right to offer
is her/his own." As of the printing of this article, we were not able
to ascertain whether or not Witches use the blood of aborted children
in their sacrifices. Since the child is not considered human according
to our liberal abortion laws, it stands to reason that such a
sacrifice, protected by law, could be used by witches.

Wicca's National Network

The association of witchcraft/paganism with the promotion of abortion
on demand can be seen in cities where Wicca has gained it strongest
following. Most of these centers are liberal communities with large
colleges or universities such as San Francisco; Cleveland; Birmingham;
Boston; and Salem. Wicca finds its greatest popularity in so-called
"New Age Centers." However, many Wiccans look down on New Agers as
"spiritual wanna-be's" who have picked up the terminology of Pagans
and Wiccans, but "have no expertise in the craft." Wiccans are those
who take their "magic" more seriously.

The Witches' League for Public Awareness and the Wiccan Religious
Cooperative of Florida are two groups which are seeking to bring about
Wiccan "unity" by networking covens into a nationally-organized,
highly-funded, tax-exempt cult with a local headquarters in every New
Age Center.

Salem, Massachusetts not only symbolizes witchcraft to tourists with a
casual historical interest, but is the national headquarters of an
organized, politically-active and profitable cult. Laurie Cabot is the
foremost leader of the American witch cult. Cabot, called the
"official witch" of Salem, Massachusetts, made her first national
convergence in the April, 1979 issue of National Geographic. The
magazine described her as a descendant of a well-known Massachusetts
family: "Ten years ago (1969) she felt drawn to Salem from her home on
the West Coast. Shortly after settling in the town, she announced
herself to the mayor as a witch. Since then Laurie Cabot has made a
living lecturing on witchcraft and selling herbs, astrological charts,
and magic mirrors."

The National Geographic report described a ritual led by Cabot in
which a coven of her followers called upon the ancient Egyptian
goddess Isis. She was also described as being involved in group
chanting and displays of psychic power in conjuring a "blue aura."
When the National Geographic article was published in 1979, there were
350 witches in the area. Today Salem, a city of 38,000 people, has
approximately 2,400 practicing witches. Cabot has become well-known
across the nation and has been featured on television talk shows
including The Oprah Winfrey Show and Good Morning America.

Cabot's agenda is to organize the 2,400 witches in Salem (one-third of
whom are feminist activists) and the 200,000 witches nationwide. She
wants to "set the record straight" on the definition of Wicca by
dispelling the notion that there is anything evil about witchcraft.
Cabot contends that the concept of Satan was introduced by the
Christian Church, but that there is no place for the devil in their
beliefs, practices and traditions. Cabot seeks to portray witchcraft
in a respectable new light as a "science and an art." Says Cabot,
"Witchcraft has not been redefined since 1692, and it's time for
people to ask us who we are, not ask our enemies."4

Cabot and her league of witches lobby as a political action group
through 15 witches' councils which cover the United States, Ireland,
England and Canada. Cabot's strategy is to desensitize Americans to
the evils of witchcraft and to promote Wicca through a carefully
crafted political agenda. According to Cabot: "Each council head
oversees volunteer activities such as letter writing campaigns,
monitoring television programs, news reports, and newspaper accounts
of Witchcraft, and reporting back to our central office in Salem. In
addition to being a watchdog on misinformation about the Craft, we
review books and articles on the Craft and recommend the better ones
to libraries and schools. We also keep tabs on congressional bills
that deal with civil rights and religious liberties."5

Abortion advocates from Salem have militantly demonstrated at Boston
area abortion clinics, common sites of pro-life activism. Pro-life
leaders in the Boston area claim that witches from Salem make up some
of the ranks of some of the most vocal pro-abortion activists. Laurie
Cabot concurs with the rise of feminist activism within Wiccan covens
that worship the Goddess Diana: "In Dianic covens great emphasis is
placed on the Goddess and the role of priestesses. Covens and
organizations are matrifocal and center around women's issues. The
current women's movement has inspired much of the political activism
that some covens engage in.... radical feminism, including *******ism,
has found a place in Dianic covens...."6

Witchcraft and Child Sacrifice

Mention the word witchcraft and most Americans think of the Salem
witch trials - "an outbreak of religious hysteria among superstitious
people." The term "witch hunt" evokes the most negative images. There
is no doubt that many of those executed for witchcraft were the
innocent victims of gross superstition. But it is hard to cope with
the genuine instances of demonically inspired activity recorded with
full do***entation. A modern misconception about those tried and
executed for witchcraft is that they were punished for merely casting
spells. The death penalty for witches was prescribed for their
monstrous practice of human sacrifice.

The biblical injunction, "You shall not suffer a witch to live"
(Exodus 22:18) had nothing to do with bigotry against those practicing
the religion of witchcraft. God had warned Israel not to intermingle
with the Canaanite tribes - worshippers of Baal, Asherah, Molech and
Ashteroth - because they were practitioners of child sacrifice. The
ancient Israelites were first enticed into ***ual promiscuity through
the worship of Baal and Asherah, the sun god and fertility goddess.
The children of this generation grew up in a world in which pagan ***
rituals were deemed "normal." Soon Israel was lured into worshipping
Molech and Ashteroth, supposedly the same deities; but darker and more
sinister, demanding human sacrifice.

In Power of the Witch, Laurie Cabot extols the paganism the ancient
Celtic world in which fornication, adultery and homo***uality were
"normal." The Mother Goddess cult is presented as "a joyous, playful,
sensuous, peace-loving culture."7 Cabot then describes the permutation
of the Mother Goddess into an old crone and the Horned God into a
ravenous animal. Cabot's description closely mirrors the
transformation of ancient deities from sensual sun gods and fertility
goddesses into demons of infant ritual sacrifice.

And like the ancient Israelites, 20th century Americans were first
enticed by the ***ual revolution of the 1960s; and just a few years
later we codified abortion as a "fundamental right" and killed over
one million unborn children a year. Whenever pagan ***ual immorality
is accepted, abortion and child sacrifice becomes a necessity in
covering up the fruit of sin.

As we look at revivals of paganism in historical perspective, the
connection between abortion and witchcraft becomes even more apparent.
It is impossible to understand ancient and medieval Europe without
having an understanding of the pagan rituals that accompanied everyday
life. Paganism and Witchcraft played an important part in these
periods, affecting the lives of all classes of people.

* The Celtic and Northern German tribes - the ancestors of English and
German speaking peoples - were barbaric, pagan idolaters who
sacrificed their own children to the Mother Goddess. Child sacrifice
and abortion were practiced and were accepted as facts of everyday
life - the necessary consummation of rampant ***ual immorality.

* In 15th century Italy, Pope Innocent VIII was so concerned about the
rise of witchcraft that he commissioned Kraemer and Sprenger's famous
Malleus Maleficarum, a treatise on Witchcraft. Commissioned in 1484,
the treatise repeatedly links witchcraft to abortion and child
sacrifice: "Witches who are midwives in various ways kill the child
conceived in the womb and procure an abortion...."8 In Italy and other
European countries of the Renaissance, witchcraft was repeatedly
linked to the practice of child sacrifice and abortion.9

* During the reign of Louis XIV, witch trials were held in France
which exposed a vast network of abortion services and the trafficking
of new-borns used for sacrifices in the Sabbats of a High Priestess
named la Voisin: "The child was held over the altar, a sharp gash
across the neck, a stifled cry, and warm drops fell into the
chalice.... The corpse was handed to la Voisin, who flung it callously
into an oven fashioned for that purpose which glowed white hot in its
fierceness. It was proved that regular traffic had been carried on for
years with beggar women and the lowest prostitutes, who sold their
children for this purpose. At her trial la Voisin confessed that no
less than 2,500 babies had been disposed of in this manner...."10

* 20th century Nazi Germany is yet another example of how a revival of
neo-Paganism led to adult human sacrifice. In The Rise and Fall of the
Third Reich, William L. Shirer points to a sterilization law passed in
1933 as the event which began the persecution of Christians and Jews
throughout Germany.11 Abortion was also made legal during this time.
This was the spiritual impetus which brought a revival of human
sacrifices being offered to ancient pagan deities - complete with Nazi
rituals - to the forefront. The Holocaust was preceded by vast
pageants which Hitler used to promote neo-Paganism. Resolutions were
drawn up requiring all pastors to take an oath of allegiance to Hitler
and insisting that all churches institute the Aryan paragraph and
exclude converted Jews."12 Pastors who resisted were jailed.

"Not many Germans lost much sleep over the arrests of a few thousand
pastors and priests or over the quarreling of Protestant sects. And
even fewer paused to reflect that under the leadership of Rosenberg,
Borman and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime
intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and
substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the
new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As Bormann, one of the men
closest to Hitler, said in 1941, 'National Socialism and Christianity
are irreconcilable.'"13

History tells us that neo-Paganism has experienced sporadic revivals,
but also that the Church has had great success in openly confronting
witchcraft and the practice of child sacrifice. But whenever the
Church has compromised with pagan culture, she herself has become
paganized eventually committing the same practices that she was
commissioned to destroy. Pagan cultures that have worshipped false
gods and practiced human sacrifice - Canaanites; Carthage; the Celtic
tribes; and Nazi Germany - faced immanent destruction. This scenario
is being replayed today. We now have laws that make it a federal
felony for Christians to peacefully blockade an abortion clinic and
are on the verge of making "mercy killing" legal. We are facing the
immanent paganization of our culture.

Americans are turning to pre-Christian pagan religions because the
Church is culturally irrelevant and is not having an impact on our
society. Christians are losing the battle for the same reason that the
pagans are gaining a foothold. Pagans take pains to appear as "nice
people"; are involved in community causes; give generously to
political lobbyist groups such as NOW; and are aware of the threat
that activated Christians pose to their continued existence.

On the other hand, modern evangelical Christians are ignorant of the
historical precedent for revival even in the face of militant
paganism. The average evangelical is content to meet with other
Christians on Sunday to worship God, yet is not politically active and
will not contribute in such a way as to re-Christianize our nation. We
do not see a need to resist idolatry even with pagan immorality being
codified at the highest levels of government.

But it is still possible to turn the tide! Just think of how mighty
and godly some of the more committed Christians in your community are.
Imagine how powerful God's people could be in turning the tide towards
righteousness. God has a prophetic company of men and women who are
destined to go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah to confront
wickedness and change our nation!

How you can resist modern paganism

1. Recognize that abortion is a spiritual issue. Abortion is the
sacrifice of human preborn infants on the altar of convenience by
those with a pagan worldview. Abortion is not just a political or
social issue; it's a spiritual issue. Witchcraft is the spiritual
force behind the politics of abortion.

2. Engage in spiritual warfare against demonic forces. It is important
for the Church in America to go to the places where the killing is
taking place and intercede on behalf of the unborn. There are many
forms that this can take, but spiritual warfare is most effective when
you appear physically at the abortuary nearest to your home. Jesus
said: "The gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church"
(Matthew 16:18).

3. Evangelism. Many abortion advocates are not secular humanists, but
are deeply spiritual people. They are drawn to the spiritual power of
occult practices. Some of the most meaningful evangelistic exchanges
come before the very gates of hell - the abortion clinics of America.
Don't get caught into the trap of thinking that God loves the
abortionist, but merely hates his sin. God can pour out his grace on
those practicing human sacrifice, but they must repent. Pray that God
will touch that deep spiritual impulse in abortionists to seek
reconciliation with their loving Father. Pray also that if they don't
repent that God will purge their sin with His fiery judgment.

4. Become politically and socially involved. Don't be fooled by the
modern prevailing notion that God is not involved in politics. Isaiah
described the role of Jesus Christ in governing the affairs of men:
"And the government shall be upon His shoulders" (Isaiah 9:6). This
government includes individual, family and church self-government, but
this verse also applies to civil government. Civil government is not
"secular" or evil, but should be ruled by the moral law of God.

5. Give generously to ministries that are committed to reforming our
society. There are many organizations that are committed to fighting
the war against abortion. But reformation must happen at the grass
roots level among committed individuals. The best contribution you can
make is to support the local pro-life ministry in your area, or a
local church or ministry that is involved in societal reformation. The
most meaningful sacrifice that you can make is your own time and
effort. Unless you get involved, God will hold you ultimately
responsible for the holocaust that is occurring in our nation.

For a list of media resources and information on how you can resist
the flood of evil in our country, write: Media House International,
P.O. Box 362173, Melbourne, FL 32936.

1 Paul Solotaroff, "Surviving the Crusades," Rolling Stone,
Oct.14,'93, pp.59,60.
2 Laurie Cabot, Power of the Witch (Delacorte Press, New York, 1989)
3 Witchcraft: Commonly-Asked Questions; Straightforward Answers,
Homebrewed Productions, 2140 Shattuck Ave., #2236, Berkeley, CA 94704.
4 Jan Phillips, "The Craft of the Wise," Ms., January/February 1993,
5 Cabot, pp.85,86.
6 Ibid, p.83.
7 Ibid, p.33.
8 The Malleus Maleficarum of Heinrich Kramer and James Sprenger,
trans. Rev. Montague Summers (Dover Publications, New York, 1971)
9 Montague Summers, Geography of Witchcraft (University Books, New
Hyde Park, New York, 1965).
10 Ibid, p.432,433.
11 William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall the Third Reich (Simon and
Schuster, New York, 1960) p.234,235.
12 Ibid, p.237.
13 Ibid, p.240.

Media House International

All Copyrights© are acknowledged. Material reproduced for
educational and research purposes only.

================================================== ===============================
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2 9th July 16:11
External User
Posts: 1
Default witches and abortion(child sacrifice) (sacrifice abortion theology mind don)

Martus, why don't you just post an original thought instead of
copy/pasting plagiarized articles over and over?

Your blatant abuse of scripture in the examples on your web-site
negate virtually everything you post.


"...keeping in mind that there is a diversity of opinion within the realm
of Christian theology, I can only offer one observation: Readers should be wary
of *anyone* who uses statements like, "God prepared me . . .", "God watered me . . .",
"God told me . . ."

Non-evangelical readers should be aware of one of the fallacies of evangelicalism:
*everyone* tends to think of himself as a theologian. Heathen today, born again tomorrow,
and the next day you're calling yourself a theologian."

---Steve Levicoff
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3 9th July 16:12
External User
Posts: 1
Default witches and abortion(child sacrifice) (sacrifice abortion faith religion church)

Christians even today, in America sacrifice their children as proof of faith in God.

Your not very good at research or you would know a Wiccan is not a
witch. I bet you don't even know what a witch is.

What about your ties with the christian religion?

And the exact same thing is said of you.

Maybe the witch believes in freedom of choice while you want the world
to be your slaves.

Are you and your church NOT politically active.

The number is closer to 20,000,000.
Many of them in your own church.

No it is not but it is used by Christians to kill their own children.

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4 13th July 04:49
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Posts: 1
Default witches and abortion(child sacrifice) (sacrifice abortion god psychic evil)

On 15 Jul 2003, martus had this to say:

Never a good sign, this. Should I address my comments to this Jay
Rogers, Martus?

"Area pro-lifers" would find that extremely useful to their cause, would
they not? So it is beholden on *them* to provide evidence - and I mean
solid, do***ented, unbiased evidence - that this comment was made. Until
then, it can have little more status as fact than most of the propaganda
that 'pro-lifers' rely on.

Witchcraft is not a religion. Wicca is. Is the writer aware of the
difference? Or does it suit their own religious beliefs not to concern
themselves with it?

Is this writer presuming to state that a person should not be permitted
to work in a particular field if they adhere to a particular religion?
There is only one word for that: bigotry.

I assume we will be getting to the point fairly soon...

Which is of course of no concern to non-Wiccans like the writer here. Or
is it? If it is, WHY is it?

Quite where the thing about Christians comes in there I do not know. It
appears the writer is suggesting that Wicca has as one of its basic
principles a specific response to another religion. I would say that
this is self-flattery on the part of the other religion. Wicca has no
built-in stance towards Christianity, because while Christianity (or some
branches of it) may obsess about Wiccans, Wicca does not perceive
Christianity as the same kind of threat.

As far as the 'Harm None' clause (or Wiccan Rede) is concerned, it is a
guideline, nothing more. A person who tries to suggest it is possible to
live life without ever harming a living thing is a delusional idiot.
That Wiccans try to follow the rule is admirable, but none of them have,
do, or ever will succeed, and the honest ones will accept after a time
that there is always a need to do harm in life.

Probably so.

Generally correct. Indeed, the religion spreads in much the same way as
any other religion, despite the protestations of younger Wiccans that the
faith prohibits 'proselytisation'. It does not, of course, certainly not
any more. If Gardner practised his religion for any length of time in
secret (which I doubt) then perhaps he might have imposed a 'no
proselytisation' rule - but let us not forget it was Gardner HIMSELF who
came forward and publicly announced himself as a witch.

Generally correct.

Generally correct, although if we are discussing large-scale stone rings,
most British Wiccans will use existing ones, such as Stonehenge (when
open) or the Ring of Brodgar. What is done in America I do not know.

Indeed so. It is important to understand where the Christian concept of
Satan as the horned one came from. Where other than Pan? Personally, I
dislike the common Wiccan 'rent-a-god' practice of borrowing gods from
older faiths. Wicca is a new religion, and I feel it should be
addressing the gods in new ways.

Does it worship Satan? Well, in the Biblical sense, anything not of the
Christian God is Satanic, so of course it does. However, while it is
impossible for a Christian to comprehend the idea of a universe with
'built-in' evil in balance with its good, and unthinkable to imagine that
Satan could not exist, this is nevertheless the view of Wicca. Wicca has
no more need to follow the commands of the Bible than Christianity need
obey every word of the Adi Granth.

A moment of logic applied to this would suffice. The witch is human. If
the aborted child is not considered human, then it cannot be considered
part of the witch. And if it is not part of the witch, then it cannot be
classed a self-sacrifice.

Again, for what it is worth, I can see no value in blood sacrifices.
Barring some medical problem, blood is not hard to come by. Most humans
manufacture it in great quantities over time, therefore the loss of a
drop or two is hardly a sacrifice.

Finally, why would the Wiccan gods demand sacrifice in any case?

'Liberal communities' in this case (indeed, 'liberal' in most cases)
meaning 'not in agreement with my own values'.

In other words, taking advantage of Salem's claim to fame.

Many Wiccans, particularly those young in the faith and still in their
'fluffy' stage, speak knowingly and passionately of 'the Burning Times' -
that terrible period in history when innocent witches were persecuted and
burned by the evil Christians.

There were no 'Burning Times'. At least, not so far as Wicca is
concerned. At the time of the Salem trials, Wicca was still hundreds of
years in the future. Most of the victims of the trials were Christian,
none were 'witches' - at least not who would have admitted it, and most
were hanged (in one case pressed to death) rather than burned.

I would not assume that Cabot's activities could be described as being
indicative of Wicca or witchcraft in general.

Isis, eh? Rent-a-god. What would Isis want to have to do with Salem?
And besides, conjuring a blue aura is hardly an epic display of psychic
skill. All you need is a blue light.

I am surprised the figure is so low. Consider that this is the town
famous through history for only one thing - witches. In all honesty I
would have expected the figure to be much higher than this, with people
like Cabot wanting to get in on the act. And that is in a big town. I
would bet that even little Burkittsville, Maryland, suddenly found itself
with at least a couple of extra witches after the release of THAT movie..
Probably young ones dressing in black and wearing lots of make-up, but
even so...

Which is fair comment, if a little misguided. 'No place' for the Devil?
If by 'Devil' you mean Satan, the evil adversary to the Christian God,
then of course there is no place since Wiccans are not Christian. But if
she means evil in general, then it exists in all of us, and neither
Wiccan nor witchcraft suggest otherwise. Just take a look at the daily
content of this newsgroup if you have trouble believing that - see how
evil thrives in a place where everyone thinks they are good. For a
further demonstration (if you are feeling brave), spend a day or two
watching alt.religion.wicca.

It does not matter. Witchcraft will be what it is regardless of what
others think of it. Witches can only be persecuted if they want to be.
And besides, is Cabot talking about witchcraft or Wicca?

It sounds as though Cabot's strategy is to make money and get famous.

Probably. Think about it. A 'witch' who thinks she needs to be militant
about her religion AND her stance on abortion is going to be pretty
damned militant.

Precisely the opposite aim to that of 'original' Wicca. Wicca as created
by Gardner (and it WAS created by Gardner, however much some might tell
you it has descended unchanged from pre-druidic times) held feminine and
masculine attributes in equal reverence. That was the point. Nature
requires and is composed of both. Dianic covens suppress the male in
favour of the female. That defeats the object. Most of them become
little more than 'aren't men awful' feminist forums. No better than
other religions which make their gods male at the expense of the female.

Or political machination.

None of the Salem victims were ever found guilty of human sacrifice. To
say that they were is immensely disrespectful to their already-wronged
memory. Most of those people were innocent, God-fearing Christians and
it is wrong to accuse them posthumously, so many years after the fact,
simply in order to make a political point.

Very true. There was and is no 'religion of witchcraft'. There is
simply witchcraft as used by some religions. Incidentally, the Biblical
injunction you reference is of extremely dubious provenance.

The reasoning here shows some remarkably unsafe leaps of logic. What are
we saying here? The Mother Goddess goes through stages of Maiden, Mother
and Crone. The Horned God grows in power as the Sun gets stronger, then
dies away in midwinter to be reborn at the beginning of the spring. I am
at a loss to see the comparison with these demons, and certainly am
having difficulty working out where infant sacrifice comes in here.

Not so. Witchcraft as it is practised today has nothing to do with
ancient practices. We have little evidence that any religion of
witchcraft was ever practised, and indeed very little evidence that
'witch' was ever a title worn proudly before the England of the 1940s.

No, they sacrificed their own children (if they did so) to their own
gods. Gods whose names might well be used today but whose faces are not
seen and whose spirits are not felt. Those gods are gone.

The book was a political tool. It should be noted that this, too, was
many hundreds of years before 'witchcraft' in its modern form became
known as a religion. What the Malleus Maleficarum showed was how to find
witches in the sense of those who had sold their souls to the Devil. In
other words, anyone the witchfinder, Church or local religious authority
found it convenient to do away with. It was a tool, a device, much like
Tony Blair's claim that Saddam Hussein could have launched his WsMD in 45

It is said that Hitler was very much 'into' the occult and used its
techniques to obtain his power and control over his population. It is
also said that he hoped to relight the fire of old Germanic belief in his
people. Whatever he did, it clearly worked, for a time. And, from a
modern point of view and with 20/20 hindsight, clearly what he did was
wrong and was *obviously* wrong. And yes, perhaps you might call it a
form of witchcraft.

But this is where many people's grasp of the distinction falls down.
Wicca has a 'harm none' rule because it is a religion. Witchcraft is NOT
a religion, and has no such rule. Witchcraft is a tool which can be used
in different ways by different people.

Where you also have to be careful is in the use of the word 'neo-pagan'.
If Hitler tried to recreate a previous Germanic pagan religion then yes,
in a sense he was trying to inspire neo-paganistic beliefs. But is that
the same 'neo-pagan' that most Wiccans would call themselves? To answer
that you need only ask if western Christians are the same as Jews or
Muslims because they are all monotheistic. A weak ****ogy, because
historically there are but few monotheistic faiths, but the best I can do
for the moment, and I believe it serves the purpose.

The Church has been paganised from the beginning. It has spread by
absorption, not by replacement. Where do you think Christian traditional
religious festivals come from? Every October there is a spate of posts
on this group (a.r.c) pointing out that Hallowe'en is pagan in origin.
Every December in the same way we are reminded of the origin of the term
'Yuletide' for Christmas. And so on. In Britain, churches were built on
sites of ancient pagan significance. And, as we have already mentioned,
the Christian church even adopted the Green Man to be its Devil.

Agreed. The Church is not relevant, because it cannot bring itself to
flex with the changes society is undergoing. It is absolute. The only
exceptions are those churches and denominations which encourage free
intepretation and the personal search for God, rather than demanding
unflinching, flawless obedience to the static (apart from the odd

An issue is only 'spiritual' if you make it so. And if you DO choose to
make it so, then you will be over-emotional if asked to decide on it so
should step back and allow the decision to be made by people with a more
balanced outlook.

I thought you wanted to fight paganism? If so, then focusing your
efforts on something which exists only in Christian tradition is a waste of time.

If you mean 'go cause trouble', then why not have the courage to say it?

So you say that God hates the abortionist? This does not seem very
consistent with the word of the Christian God as put forth in the Bible.

But make sure you educate yourself on the subject first. Otherwise, stay
out of it. Do not act on emotion. Act on knowledge.

Your money is your own. Donate it to whom you choose.

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5 13th July 04:50
brenda g. kent
External User
Posts: 1
Default Peace loving Muslims?

and as far as the Bible says are supposed to kill witches.
How different is that?

ps. Do I see a plank in your eye?
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6 13th July 04:51
brenda g. kent
External User
Posts: 1
Default Peace loving Muslims? (beliefs old testament don)

****and do all Christians share this belief or view? I don't believe that
all Muslims believe in destroying all Israelis either...but according to
some...they do. I see many people pulling up old testament laws etc. to
back their beliefs.....sad.
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7 13th July 20:43
john w
External User
Posts: 1
Default Peace loving Muslims? (branch don blood)

"All Christians do not share much of any belief or view. I can speak
for my branch.

I don't believe that

Those whom I have spoken with are not anti-American or anti-Christian.
I said that badly, I have talked with those who are not, so they say.
And I have talked with those who are.
but according to

I agree. There are a few Old Testament laws that are still in effect.
We are still forbidden to eat or drink blood, but most of the Old
Testament is not in "full effect" for Christians. John W

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8 13th July 20:43
External User
Posts: 1
Default Peace loving Muslims? (holy books apostle law time)

It really doesn't matter what "reasonable" Muslims, Jews, or Christians
"think" or "say" to each other while "chatting" in a newsgroup. Problem
still remains basically.., none of them activity "read and study" their own
Each of these "unwashed masses".., of each belief system rarely sets time
aside to "search" their holy books for whatever "truth" God may have for
them. Most blindly "follow" some manic who simply yells the loudest..!
My suggestion..., you Muslims stop denying your "holy book" instructs you
to "kill" Jews and Christians. Just do it, and pay the price. You Jews..,
stop thinking of yourselves and crowing about yourselves as the "only"
chosen people.., God is not that narrow minded!
John.., for God's sake.., please correct yourself!! The Lord himself
said "..not one jot or title of the "law" shall pass away.., until I come
again..", which I think trumps any mouthings of another troble making guy
named Paul.., who by the way.., was another "self appointed" apostle to....
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9 13th July 20:45
john w
External User
Posts: 1
Default Peace loving Muslims? (apostle law way)

Please say you are speaking your own opinion, which many of us do not share.

Since you have not visited all 3 Billion homes, you cannot say what
happens behind closed doors.

Most blindly "follow" some manic who simply yells the loudest.. Glittering generalizations. !

In fact, He is, and those are His words.

The Lord himself

He did, and you misunderstood that significance of that. The law is a
sign-post, nothing more. It only condemns; it cannot save.

which I think trumps any mouthings of another troble making guy

You have your right to your narror/incorrect view, but dont expect
many followers.
Paul, after all, wrote most of the New Testament (that's the last 1/4
of the Bible)

who by the way.., was another "self appointed" apostle to....

My Bible says Jesus Christ personally appointed Paul. Which one are
YOU not reading?
John W

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10 18th July 21:03
External User
Posts: 1
Default Peace loving Muslims? (demons witchcraft science control sacrifice)

Deuteronomy 18:9-13 (NCV)

9 When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, don't learn
to do the hateful things the other nations do. 10 Don't let anyone
among you offer a son or daughter as a sacrifice in the fire. Don't
let anyone use magic or witchcraft, or try to explain the meaning of
signs. 11 Don't let anyone try to control others with magic, and don't
let them be mediums or try to talk with the spirits of dead people. 12
The Lord hates anyone who does these things. Because the other nations
do these things, the Lord your God will force them out of the land
ahead of you. 13 But you must be innocent in the presence of the Lord
your God.

**The problem with these witches were they were burning children in
the fire as a sacrifice to their demon gods.

Remember this article:

Human skin exhibited to curb its trade

DAR ES SALAAM, Tanzania, July 4 (UPI) -- Visitors to a week-long
international business fair in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, will see
exhibits of human skin, displayed to discourage its underground trade.

Gloria Machube, head of the forensic science division of the chief
chemist's office exhibiting the skin, told the British Broadcasting
Corp. that human skin is used in witchcraft.

In the past two years, skin trade has grown in the east African
country, and the demand in other nations is huge, the BBC reported.
Skins, which range in price from $2,400 to $9,600, are transported to
Malawi, Zambia, Mozambique, South Africa and the Democratic Republic
of Congo.

In 2001, police broke a skin-smuggling ring and 13 people were charged
with murder. A total of six people are thought to have been killed and
skinned in south-western Tanzania.

*By the way saw your article where you said you were reclaiming Jesus,
do you honestly believe that you can wield God like the demon's powers
you use in your craft?

Do you honestly believe that when God says that witches will end up in
the lake of fire with those demons they coupled themselves to, that
God is only kidding?

Are you stronger than God?

Revelation 21:8 (GNB)

8But cowards, traitors, perverts, murderers, the immoral, those who
practise magic, those who worship idols, and all liars—the place for
them is the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second

End times:
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