There's a post on 1/18/04 on http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.asp
where Ford responses to Rich.

It is kind of funny..... Rich acting all embolden being armed with
Doug's grandiose date games goes over to Ford's bulletin board
and regurgitates Doug's apologetic points (desperate grasping at
straws), and Ford gives Rich and Doug a contextual spanking.

I kind of feel sorry for these eckists here who read Marman's crap and
feel empowered because they actually think Marman has made some
significant points. When Marman's stuff hits the real world it is easily
and quickly exposed for what it is: Intellectual dishonesty that is
hyped with grandiosity. Gawd that sounds awefully familiar. I can see
why Marman likes Paul, he resonated with Paul's intellectual dishonesty
and grandiosity.

Speaking of pity....

There is another poster there, TM, who posted a response on 1/19/04
that describes how Harold is now groveling at seminars and asking for
pity. Interesting.

Lurk

And lurk proves his bias in the glee of his snoopy dance here over Rich
being told by supposedly, ford... that "factual trivia" is not the basis
of truth? Gee... where does that leave forensics? In short, all that
ford said here was, "my opinions need no explanations or facts, just
take my summation as closing arguments and that's all you need!". tsk...
and this is what lurk is seeking to follow? Just like the crap that the
anticult community pumps out, all it takes is declarative sentences, and
lurk falls for it like a 10 year old girl! <sigh>

Nah, Ford said even if Doug is correct, with some of the minutia, it
doesn't change the larger context of Paul being a liar and dishonest
with people. Rich got his butt spanked and sent on his way. Rich got
flicked like an annoying bug.
That's how strong Doug's "arguments" are. <gg>

Doug is splitting hairs and thinks he is winning the war.

People like you and Rich jump on board Doug's intellectually dishonest
train and and beat your chest with Doug's grandiose stuff and look
doubly foolish.

As I keep saying over the years. Paul conned people once, and Doug turns
right around and cons them again about Paul's conning.
Lurk

Well what I saw was pure unadulterated vanity from a man with nothing to
offer but opinions! Too bad that he believes he can win his case based
solely on his closing arguments. But as I said before... if facts get in
the way of truth, then I'd hate to see what truth you guys are buying
into! Probably the same one that clings to david lane's suppositions
without so much as asking for do***entation or evidence to back up his
opinions. tsk.... what a slip shot bunch you are!


david and ford are offering opinions and suppositions and you think this
is truth! Now that's frightening. I guess any gossip will fill the void
of intelligence in your book. tsk...


Excuse me? Doug, intellectually dishonest? You sure have never making a
statement like that. Lot's of put downs from you, but absolutely no
evidence to back up your viewpoint. <sigh>


Yeah... and after all these years, you're still full of it! <smile>

Nothing to offer but opinion? What the hell do you want him to offer
besides opinions. Looks like you'll say anything to try to make him look
bad. Why is that?


Too bad that he believes he can win his case based

He never said facts get in the way of truth, but that in the grand
scheme of things Doug's focus on dates misses the larger point
that Paul dishonest and deceiving. Ford even said he would correct any
of Doug's trivial facts in future editions. So your statement is
inaccurate and reactive as usual.


then I'd hate to see what truth you guys are buying


Cher quite frequently ends here rants with comments that turn out to commentary on herself.

I think Lane and Ford offer some very convincing interpretations of the
evidence.


Now that's frightening. I guess any gossip will fill the void


Yes, exceedingly so. You eckists are fools by the humble demeanor, his
passive aggressive, calculating, contrived style of communicating. Many
of your eckists have been inculcated to have this ideal of what a
spiritually advanced person acts like, and when anyone acts like that, you
conclude they are spiritually advanced. This is the biggest bunch of
bullshit. You all have been fooled by Paul, Darwin, and now Harold.

Of course you think Doug's writing is coming from a place of a high
consciousness individual....he plays the part. But his interaction here
are a far cry from what I would consider authentic communication. Many
of you eckists are left in the precarious position of looking up to
intellectual dishonesty because it is packaged in your preconceived
notions of a spiritually evolved being.

You sure have never making a

I have reviewed most of Doug's book when it came out chapter by chapter.
Go read these critiques to see what I mean by intellectually dishonest.


I'm serious about the con on top of a con thing. Eckists who begin to
wake up to the truth about Paul and Harold and eckankar are in a
vulnerable state. Doug writes a book that basically gives them
permission to go back to sleep and enjoy their eckankar slumber. He's
just another authority who whispers in the eckists' ears that lying and
dishonesty are alright in his bedazzling way. Doug certainly provides a
function in the dualistic worlds of having available for eckists, a path
of denial and leads the way in this regard. Helping pull the wool over
the eyes of vulnerable eckists doesn't seem like such a noble pursuit to
me, but then I guess it makes perfect sense for Doug to engage in such
since this is what he does to himself in my opinion. We all tend to pull
people along in our delusions. He does a good job of it, we can all
concede that.
Lurk

The only war I see is the one between your higher consciousness
(presently serving as Cher) and the ego you think you are, Lurkie.
Plachowitz

You base all this noise you make here on nothing more than opinions and
you ask me what's up? sheeeeesh lurk, that's pitiful!


Bullshit! Read his response! You're making excuses for the man. You're
real big on defending your heros, aren't you? tsk....


Not particularly, lurk. But if you can't handle the truth, you may as
well try to spin it into something to smack me with... sigh. What a
waste of time.


In this post, ford doesn't interpret the evidence, he states that his
opinion is all there is to the matter, period.


Blah blah blah... lurks standard rant. Truth be known, the only people
to behave the way you suggest so far have been exmembers! No one here
worships Doug. In fact many times people here have disagreed with him on
various matters. I'm sure you don't recall these times because he
doesn't make a stupip hissy fit out those times. But hey, they've happened.

Well if that's what you need to believe, go for it. It seems pretty dull
witted to me, but who am I to say what you need!

I was here and yes I know what you ranted about. I found you tiring and
petty throughout those threads, actually. You argued alot, but had
nothing to offer the conversation. In fact those were the threads where
I began to realize that you post in a circular manner. Yep... I do
recall those days well, lurk. You're still thinking in circles.


You're just jealous of Doug. Everybody knows it but you. Of course the
kindest thing to do is ignore your jealous hissy fits and blow you off.
<smile>

LOL... good one, CP!

Look again Plachopuss, Doug has been fighting his private war for many
years now as he holds the untenable position that Paul was not
dishonest.

You're just another eckist who doesn't have much to say about the
subject at hand and wants to make the messenger the issue. You are so
innovative....nobody has done that before here. <sarcasm, if it wasn't
obvious>. Zombies are predictable. Lurk

Yeah, what's up? Discussion boards are for expressing opinions and you
want to fault Ford for expressing his opinions. What a lunatic you are!

I did. He said he would correct any factual mistakes in future editions.
Do I need to point it out to you or can you read?

Citing what Ford said is not making excuses you foolish person.

This is true what I say about you. You have not the personal growth or
awareness to know that your severely divided self makes comments about
others that are really about yourself.

You smack yourself with your low awareness commentary. sigh. What a

There is enough evidence that Paul is a liar. That people having strong
conclusions based upon the evidence seems to bother you eckists that are
still in denial.

You and Rich do. He kind of does your thinking for you doesn't he? And
that's sad because Doug's thinking is childish.

In fact many times people here have disagreed with him on


Yeah sure....you really convinced me you don't kiss his ass.

I agree, you are in no position to say what I need nor are you in any
position to challenge my viewpoints. I'm speaking from a different
perspective that you can not understand.


Oh yeah, what specifically did I take issue with in Doug's book?

C'mon poser tells us.


I found you tiring and

I basically deconstructed Doug's bullshit. Doug avoided the hard
questions. Doug demonstrates many layers of denial.


In fact those were the threads where


Please Cher, I think it is inappropriate for you to ***ually proposition
me on this newsgroup. Save that for the street corner tonight, eh? <lol> Lurk