marcinmd

Lately, Nichiren Shoshu members have been harboring a fantasy that the
Daishonin taught their various doctrines "orally" without ever writing them
down. Since it is relatively easy to see that Nichiren Shoshu claims are at


the same as Nichiren's.

Lets start with what is known about Nichiren's real Oral Teachings.
Unfortunately for Nichiren Shoshu, quite a lot. That is because of two key
pieces of evidence. The first is Nichiren's lecture notes. They still survive
to this day. They are somewhat like walking into a college Professor's
classroom after a lecture and seeing what is written on the blackboard. You can
make pretty good sense of what he was talking about. There is no hint within
these notes of any core Nichiren Shoshu doctrines.

The other surviving witness to Nichiren's oral teachings is the "Chu Hokekyo".
This is Nichiren's own personal copy of the Lotus Sutra, which he annotated
himself. It is filled with his notes and explanations of the key passages of
the Sutra. Once again, no hint at Nichiren Shoshu idea's but on the contrary,
mainstream Nichiren Buddhism is reinforced.

Finally, there is the matter of the Ongi Kuden, which is an apocryphal account
of Nichiren's lectures on the Sutra and other matters said to have been written
down by Nikko. While there may be some fragments of Nichiren's authentic
teachings within this document, it has been found to be a forgery produced
long after Nichiren's lifetime. For a complete analysis of its history, read
Jackie Stone's dissertation: "Some Disputed Writings in the Nichiren Corpus"
(call, 1-800-521-0600 to order).

So, there is no hint at Nichiren Shoshu's idea's within the known oral
teachings. Therefore, if they occurred they were secret teachings. But how
likely is that? Lets apply a little logic and common sense.

Nichiren Shoshu's religion differs from Nichiren's teachings found in the Gosho
not just in details but also in root metaphysical assumptions. If Nichiren gave
some secret teachings, he had to have contradicted what he urged people in the
Gosho to take faith in, even at the cost of their lives mind you. Not a very
honest fellow would he be.

If I were a sneaky person, I bet that I could post passages from the Gosho and
say they were my own idea's and have NST members attack them. There is barely a
single idea that Nichiren held dear which he expressed within his writings that
they don't disagree with, mock or laugh off. Each of Nichiren's ideas must be
reformulated in order to make them fit into the Nichiren Shoshu mold. When
they reach into the Gosho directly, they find no direct statements that back
them up. Therefore, they are forced to have us believe that Nichiren somehow
stood up and told people to ignore the seemingly heartfelt preaching within the
Gosho and to rather believe a totally different metaphysical assumption (
Absolute Monism) and to replace many of the details of faith with other
contradictory formula's.

HOW LIKELY IS THAT?

The answer is that it isn't at all likely. And when you understand that
Taisekiji sent it's own Priests to the enemy Tendai Shu for instruction, we can
see the real root of their various heresies. They match Medieval Tendai Shu
idea's far closer than what is in the Gosho, only "Nichirenized" for their own
use. That is the real source of Nichiren's Shoshu's Buddhism. They infected
their school with corrupt Tendai Shu doctrines that are in many ways not just
different from what Nichiren taught but are actually oppositional.

But in order to hold themselves up as "Nichiren's best followers," they have to
ascribe their innovations to Nichiren himself. They can't look the Gosho
straight in the eye, so they must reinterpret the meaning of the Gosho by the
false authority of secret "Oral Teachings"…But if that were true, it would
make Nichiren Daishonin a liar and hypocrite for writing out one religion but
then laughing at it in secret. What would become of his pious followers over
the centuries who read the Gosho and took faith in what he urged them to
believe in? What a cruel a man he would have to have been to do that.

No, the answer is quite simple. Nichiren Daishonin did not teach in whispers.
He wrote out his doctrine and he certainly lectured on the Dharma, but not
inconsistently. It's Nichiren Shoshu who has been cruel and dishonest and
inconsistent. They are not Nichiren Buddhists by the measure of the Gosho. They
cannot tie their ideas to Nichiren in any believable or reasonable manner.
Saying that there were some "secret" oral teachings is a lame and transparent
excuse for outright heresy.

cody

So far, nothing but having to take Marc's opinion as fact. Ho hum.


Still, nothing but having to take Marc's opinion as fact. Ho hum.


Sigh, again, nothing but having to take Marc's opinion as fact. Ho hum.


So far, nothing but having to take Marc's opinion as fact. Ho hum. Dr.
Stone's dissertation is so laden with maybes, probablys, could bes and other
non definitive speculation that its a wonder they gave her anything for it.


Broken record time and, yes folks, having to take Marc's opinion as fact. Ho hum.

spelling would give you away] and have NST members attack them. There is barely a

Your opinion. If you think you can speak for the Daishonin ... you're a
buffoon with an ego that I can sense all the way over here in Europe.

Your opinion which is amazing when one considers you haven't got the
remotest idea of what Nichiren Shoshu doctrine really is.


How likely is it that you know anything about Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism?


just


Your misguided, erroneous and delusional opinion. Try to get over your
grudge, widdle Marc.


have to


the


but

over

My, my this is getting boring, nothing but having to take Marc's opinion as
fact. Ho hum.


whispers.

They


transparent


Well, you have posted what you don't like about one sect of Buddhism almost
every bloody day for the last seven years. When are you going to tell us
what YOU believe and say something postitive about *anything*?

Cody

rob

in article btk6ed$81fj4$1@ID-137389.news.uni-berlin.de, Cody at


<snip of "pomposity, arrogance and the notion of expertise
on a subject of which you have no grasp.">


"This (Marc's) message doesn't merit an in depth response as that would only
encourage further inane contributions. What is interesting is the
nature of the mind that tosses out a bone like this in the first
place. It smacks of pomposity, arrogance and the notion of expertise
on a subject of which you have no grasp." --Brian

ltcmarcinmd

So far, nothing but having to take Marc's opinion as fact. Ho hum.
<<

Really?
Have you been on vacation? NST members, especially you Cody, keep on saying
that not everything is in the Gosho when you get cornered...


Woo Sorry again. Pointing out that Nichiren's notes exist is not "an opinion"
My "opinion" is that you have no case. But the facts speak for themselves

Ditto and Ditto.....

Nichiren Shoshu is not real Nichiren Buddhism and excusing the differences as
having their origin in some fantastical oral teachings that overthrow the Gosho
is crap.

slim shady

Cornered? You wish.

Not the opinion I was referring to.

Your uninformed opinion.

Alias

marcinmd

Lately, Nichiren Shoshu members have been harboring a fantasy that the
Daishonin taught their various doctrines "orally" without ever writing them
down. Since it is relatively easy to see that Nichiren Shoshu claims are at


the same as Nichiren's.

Lets start with what is known about Nichiren's real Oral Teachings.
Unfortunately for Nichiren Shoshu, quite a lot. That is because of two key
pieces of evidence. The first is Nichiren's lecture notes. They still survive
to this day. They are somewhat like walking into a college Professor's
classroom after a lecture and seeing what is written on the blackboard. You can
make pretty good sense of what he was talking about. There is no hint within
these notes of any core Nichiren Shoshu doctrines.

The other surviving witness to Nichiren's oral teachings is the "Chu Hokekyo".
This is Nichiren's own personal copy of the Lotus Sutra, which he annotated
himself. It is filled with his notes and explanations of the key passages of
the Sutra. Once again, no hint at Nichiren Shoshu idea's but on the contrary,
mainstream Nichiren Buddhism is reinforced.

Finally, there is the matter of the Ongi Kuden, which is an apocryphal account
of Nichiren's lectures on the Sutra and other matters said to have been written
down by Nikko. While there may be some fragments of Nichiren's authentic
teachings within this document, it has been found to be a forgery produced
long after Nichiren's lifetime. For a complete analysis of its history, read
Jackie Stone's dissertation: "Some Disputed Writings in the Nichiren Corpus"
(call, 1-800-521-0600 to order).

So, there is no hint at Nichiren Shoshu's idea's within the known oral
teachings. Therefore, if they occurred they were secret teachings. But how
likely is that? Lets apply a little logic and common sense.

Nichiren Shoshu's religion differs from Nichiren's teachings found in the Gosho
not just in details but also in root metaphysical assumptions. If Nichiren gave
some secret teachings, he had to have contradicted what he urged people in the
Gosho to take faith in, even at the cost of their lives mind you. Not a very
honest fellow would he be.

If I were a sneaky person, I bet that I could post passages from the Gosho and
say they were my own idea's and have NST members attack them. There is barely a
single idea that Nichiren held dear which he expressed within his writings that
they don't disagree with, mock or laugh off. Each of Nichiren's ideas must be
reformulated in order to make them fit into the Nichiren Shoshu mold. When
they reach into the Gosho directly, they find no direct statements that back
them up. Therefore, they are forced to have us believe that Nichiren somehow
stood up and told people to ignore the seemingly heartfelt preaching within the
Gosho and to rather believe a totally different metaphysical assumption (
Absolute Monism) and to replace many of the details of faith with other
contradictory formula's.

HOW LIKELY IS THAT?

The answer is that it isn't at all likely. And when you understand that
Taisekiji sent it's own Priests to the enemy Tendai Shu for instruction, we can
see the real root of their various heresies. They match Medieval Tendai Shu
idea's far closer than what is in the Gosho, only "Nichirenized" for their own
use. That is the real source of Nichiren's Shoshu's Buddhism. They infected
their school with corrupt Tendai Shu doctrines that are in many ways not just
different from what Nichiren taught but are actually oppositional.

But in order to hold themselves up as "Nichiren's best followers," they have to
ascribe their innovations to Nichiren himself. They can't look the Gosho
straight in the eye, so they must reinterpret the meaning of the Gosho by the
false authority of secret "Oral Teachings"…But if that were true, it would
make Nichiren Daishonin a liar and hypocrite for writing out one religion but
then laughing at it in secret. What would become of his pious followers over
the centuries who read the Gosho and took faith in what he urged them to
believe in? What a cruel a man he would have to have been to do that.

No, the answer is quite simple. Nichiren Daishonin did not teach in whispers.
He wrote out his doctrine and he certainly lectured on the Dharma, but not
inconsistently. It's Nichiren Shoshu who has been cruel and dishonest and
inconsistent. They are not Nichiren Buddhists by the measure of the Gosho. They
cannot tie their ideas to Nichiren in any believable or reasonable manner.
Saying that there were some "secret" oral teachings is a lame and transparent
excuse for outright heresy.

marcinmd

Lately, Nichiren Shoshu members have been harboring a fantasy that the
Daishonin taught their various doctrines "orally" without ever writing them
down. Since it is relatively easy to see that Nichiren Shoshu claims are at


the same as Nichiren's.

Lets start with what is known about Nichiren's real Oral Teachings.
Unfortunately for Nichiren Shoshu, quite a lot. That is because of two key
pieces of evidence. The first is Nichiren's lecture notes. They still survive
to this day. They are somewhat like walking into a college Professor's
classroom after a lecture and seeing what is written on the blackboard. You can
make pretty good sense of what he was talking about. There is no hint within
these notes of any core Nichiren Shoshu doctrines.

The other surviving witness to Nichiren's oral teachings is the "Chu Hokekyo".
This is Nichiren's own personal copy of the Lotus Sutra, which he annotated
himself. It is filled with his notes and explanations of the key passages of
the Sutra. Once again, no hint at Nichiren Shoshu idea's but on the contrary,
mainstream Nichiren Buddhism is reinforced.

Finally, there is the matter of the Ongi Kuden, which is an apocryphal account
of Nichiren's lectures on the Sutra and other matters said to have been written
down by Nikko. While there may be some fragments of Nichiren's authentic
teachings within this document, it has been found to be a forgery produced
long after Nichiren's lifetime. For a complete analysis of its history, read
Jackie Stone's dissertation: "Some Disputed Writings in the Nichiren Corpus"
(call, 1-800-521-0600 to order).

So, there is no hint at Nichiren Shoshu's idea's within the known oral
teachings. Therefore, if they occurred they were secret teachings. But how
likely is that? Lets apply a little logic and common sense.

Nichiren Shoshu's religion differs from Nichiren's teachings found in the Gosho
not just in details but also in root metaphysical assumptions. If Nichiren gave
some secret teachings, he had to have contradicted what he urged people in the
Gosho to take faith in, even at the cost of their lives mind you. Not a very
honest fellow would he be.

If I were a sneaky person, I bet that I could post passages from the Gosho and
say they were my own idea's and have NST members attack them. There is barely a
single idea that Nichiren held dear which he expressed within his writings that
they don't disagree with, mock or laugh off. Each of Nichiren's ideas must be
reformulated in order to make them fit into the Nichiren Shoshu mold. When
they reach into the Gosho directly, they find no direct statements that back
them up. Therefore, they are forced to have us believe that Nichiren somehow
stood up and told people to ignore the seemingly heartfelt preaching within the
Gosho and to rather believe a totally different metaphysical assumption (
Absolute Monism) and to replace many of the details of faith with other
contradictory formula's.

HOW LIKELY IS THAT?

The answer is that it isn't at all likely. And when you understand that
Taisekiji sent it's own Priests to the enemy Tendai Shu for instruction, we can
see the real root of their various heresies. They match Medieval Tendai Shu
idea's far closer than what is in the Gosho, only "Nichirenized" for their own
use. That is the real source of Nichiren's Shoshu's Buddhism. They infected
their school with corrupt Tendai Shu doctrines that are in many ways not just
different from what Nichiren taught but are actually oppositional.

But in order to hold themselves up as "Nichiren's best followers," they have to
ascribe their innovations to Nichiren himself. They can't look the Gosho
straight in the eye, so they must reinterpret the meaning of the Gosho by the
false authority of secret "Oral Teachings"…But if that were true, it would
make Nichiren Daishonin a liar and hypocrite for writing out one religion but
then laughing at it in secret. What would become of his pious followers over
the centuries who read the Gosho and took faith in what he urged them to
believe in? What a cruel a man he would have to have been to do that.

No, the answer is quite simple. Nichiren Daishonin did not teach in whispers.
He wrote out his doctrine and he certainly lectured on the Dharma, but not
inconsistently. It's Nichiren Shoshu who has been cruel and dishonest and
inconsistent. They are not Nichiren Buddhists by the measure of the Gosho. They
cannot tie their ideas to Nichiren in any believable or reasonable manner.
Saying that there were some "secret" oral teachings is a lame and transparent
excuse for outright heresy.