peter terry

Bush the love child of Americas Christian right.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest story of the Iraq war is not about missing weapons of mass
destruction, or about deep-cover CIA officers getting their covers blown by
vengeful White House agents, or even about 896 dead American soldiers. These
have been covered to one degree or another, and then summarily dismissed, by
the American mainstream news media. The biggest story of the Iraq war has
not enjoyed any coverage in America, though it has been exploding across the
international news media for several weeks now.

The biggest story of the Iraq war is about the torture of Iraqi
children.

A German TV magazine called 'Report Mainz' recently aired accusations from
the International Red Cross, to the effect that over 100 children are
imprisoned in U.S.- controlled detention centers, including Abu Ghraib.
"Between January and May of this year, we've registered 107 children, during
19 visits in 6 different detention locations," said Red Cross representative
Florian Westphal in the report.

The report also outlined eyewitness testimony of the abuse of these
children. Staff Sergeant Samuel Provance, who was stationed at Abu Ghraib,
said that interrogating officers had gotten their hands on a 15 or 16 year
old girl. Military police only stopped the interrogation when the girl was
half undressed. A separate incident described a 16 year old being soaked
with water, driven through the cold, smeared with mud, and then presented
before his weeping father, who was also a prisoner.

Seymour Hersh, the New Yorker reporter who first broke the story of
torture at Abu Ghraib, recently spoke at an ACLU convention. He has seen the
pictures and the videotapes the American media has not yet shown. "The boys
were sodomized with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the
soundtrack, of the boys shrieking," said Hersh. "And this is your government
at war."

Hersh described the prison scene as, "a series of massive crimes,
criminal activity by the president and the vice president, by this
administration anyway," and that there has been, "a massive amount of
criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there,
and higher."

Reports of abuses at Abu Ghraib and other American prisons have been
public knowledge since the release of the Taguba Report. Recently, however,
some 106 annexes to the report, previously classified, have also been
released. U.S. News and World Report detailed the sum of what is contained
in these annexes in an article titled 'Hell on Earth.'

In it, U.S. News says, "The abuses took place, the files show, in a
chaotic and dangerous environment made even more so by the constant pressure
from Washington to squeeze intelligence from detainees. Riots, prisoner
escapes, shootings, corrupt Iraqi guards, unsanitary conditions, rampant
***ual misbehavior, bug-infested food, prisoner beatings and humiliations,
and almost-daily mortar shellings from Iraqi insurgents--according to the
annex to General Taguba's report, that pretty much sums up life at Abu
Ghraib." According to coalition intelligence officers cited in a Red Cross
report from last May, between 70% to 90% of Iraqi detainees held in these
prisons were arrested "by mistake." That means they were innocent.

The orders to treat prisoners in this fashion were not manufactured by
the few "bad apples" we have heard about, but came from up on high. Brig.
Gen Janis Karpinski, former commander of Abu Ghraib and now scapegoat for
the abuses, says the truth about where the orders came from would be
revealed in the trials of the accused soldiers. Memos ordering the abuse of
prisoners were signed off on by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. The Justice
Department and Mr. Bush's senior legal advisor went out of their way to
craft arguments justifying this, claiming that torture isn't really torture
and that the President is basically above the law.

Mr. Hersh will revisit this issue within the next several weeks. In the
meantime, the American news media has an obligation to report on this
situation. Photographic and videotape evidence of this torture is currently
in the hands of the New Yorker, the Washington Post, the U.S. Congress and
the White House. It must be released.

We invaded a country based upon the false claim that Iraq was allied
with al Qaeda. We invaded a country based on the false claim that there were
weapons of mass destruction which needed to be destroyed. We promised
freedom and democracy, and instead installed a CIA-trained strongman named
Allawi who has all but created a dictatorship in Iraq, and who has been
accused of killing Iraqi prisoners by his own hand. 896 American soldiers
have died so we could do this.

We took thousands of innocent civilians off the streets in Iraq and
threw them into hellhole prisons, where they were beaten, ****d, and killed.
This story has faded from public view because no new pictures of the abuses
have come out in the last several weeks. Those pictures are out there, and
they show the **** and torture of children. The international media is
reporting on it. Coalition ally Norway may be preparing to flee Iraq because
of the allegations regarding these children.

Where is the American news media? Where are the pictures? Who is
responsible for this abomination? Torturing children in the name of freedom?
Is this what we have become?

full story at:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/072004A.shtml

PeterT

mikeburt

In this country there are 'children' murdering people. Do you believe that
these murderers should not be detained because they are children?

No one didsagrees that there were abuses in Abu Ghraib as there were even
worse abuses under Saddam Insane, the difference is that today they are
all still alive and there is a public trial for the abusers. That is
quite a difference from Saddam's days in Abu Grahib.


No, it appears to be the work of degenerats on the radical religious left
at work undermining the government.


You mean to say that the President and vice President were sodomizing
people at Aby Grahib? by this


Hmmm, must be why there has been no public trials in the matter.

And what did this official pressure suggest to do in order to squeeze
intelligence from detainees? Riots, prisoner


IOW, there really isn't all that many insergents in Iraq afterall?


Where is the evidence? Brig.


Nothing so far. It sounds more like Janis failed in her command.

Memos ordering the abuse of


And these 'orders for abuse' consisted of what? The Justice


Depends upon what the memos' said about what constitutes abuse.

We already know that there is abuse and that it is unacceptable and that
it is being taken care of. What would more pictures be needed for?


No, we invaded Iraq according to the best information available at the
time, according to Kerry.

We invaded a country based on the false claim that there were


IOW, Clinton was wrong to lobb off missiles to Baghdad? We promised

Would you support a homeless person for the job as opposed to a CIA trained professional?


Innocent according to the Red Cross into prisons that were already there
and in popular use?

where they were beaten, ****d, and killed.

How many were killed?

IOW, the dumbing down of America requires pictures since people can't read
and rationally think for themselves?

Those pictures are out there, and


Another win for the terrorists?

No, it is what America's enemies want to falsly protray what America is.

--
May God Bless You
Michael
GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.
We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.

hans-joachim.maximilian

Very few of the rapists and torturers are going to go on trial.

Women and girls were abducted, stripped, dogs were used on them, they
were hooded, used for ****ography etc. Their children were tortured
in front of them by Us soldiers. Who is being charged with that?

How many victims get to testify at the trials you refer to? They don't
because the US was ***ually abusing the females and kids to the same
extent they abused the males and it was intended to be that way.

peter terry

news:<mikeburt-0808040918370001@192.168.1.104>...


You may have a point...But history WILL judge the
US and the Christian right who have supported these
heinous crimes against brothers and sister.

Like the Middle Ages, Jesus has yet again been dragged
through the excrement of political mindlessness and evil!

PeterT

mikeburt

So, how many are not facing trials?


Who did it?

Who said a victem has to testify at a fair trial? Lacy Peterson is not
testifying at her trial. Are you saying that that is required for fairness? They don't


According to whom?

The court martial trials are already making such a judgement, something
missing from Saddam's Iraq.


You seem to have a rather Christophobic reimaging of history.

--
May God Bless You
Michael
GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.
We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.

peter terry

You are in complete denial and typical of the new
Christian right emerging out of the US, who will justify
killing on any basis providing it further their wacko
politicised pagan religions.

Do you subscribe to the charismatic views on
the Rapture and Jesus' violent return to earth?

PeterT

gaffo

only public do to the leak. if no leak we'd be still doing it. this goes
ALL the way up the latter.

you are a POS. I see you value this type of interigation - and by OUR
government to boot.

You Nazi piece of crap.

called "vicarious liability"..............trumen once said as much in
his own words.

But unlike Truman - you nor Bu$hler have one ounce of Honour.


it was LEAKED you DUMBSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! like Watergate. You think
anything would have happened if there was no leak? You pathetic piece of
shit, you so ****ing naive as to honestly beleive that the US Army and
Federal government would have made the abuse public out of the goodness
of thier hearts?

where do they breed such naive dumbshits anyway? does it involved
selective breeding?


Jesus H. Christ!


Zieg heil!

--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.

"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter

"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader


RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President **** Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001


"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

"He threatens not the United States."

"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001

gaffo

the pathetic "christian" playing Herr Imhofe I see.

Lovely.

Saddam is your moral standard.

The Religious Reich is all about killing and hate.

Zieg Heil!

--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.

"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter

"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader


RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President **** Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001


"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

"He threatens not the United States."

"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001

mikeburt

You are in complete denial and typical of the new
Christophobic left emerging out of the US, who will justify
killing on any basis providing it further their wacko
politicised pagan religions.


As you have misrepresented them above, no.

--
May God Bless You
Michael
GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.
We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.

hans-joachim.maximilian

The Pentagon had a view when Hersh etc. arrived on scene, for putting
thirty or so on trial. However it is retreating from Taguba etc.

That may have included the culprits in gang *** assaults etc. The
Pentagon have not established scale or interviewed witnesses.

It has restricted itself to the photos in the *public* domain rather
than the victim testimony and other evidence.

US soldiers obviously.

In this case with so many victims, I rather think so. The US soldiers
currently on trial are only a tiny part of the narrative.

In civil cases in the US the victims are claiming girls were ****d
infront of their relatives etc. It seems a little wrong not to
investigate such allegations.

Have you a memo from Rumsfeld excluding pregnant women from being
obliged to stand for hours etc? Or a do***ent to suggest that girls
were not to be stripped or hooded for days? Because if you don't we
may as well presume the extended security detainee regime applied to
the male *and* to everybody else without regards to age, gender,
medical cir***stance etc.


The US military was using the exact same torturers as Saddam Hussein.
They were re-hired and immediately began using girls for *** and
torturing prisoners etc.

It also sent over US experts who were just as suspect as anybody
employed by the Baathists. The US had its own **** camp scandal
before it loked into Iraq.

Michigan and Arizona were litigated (via CRIPA USDoJ lawsuits) for
systemic **** and torture of female inmates.

The UN Rapporteur was refused access to the Michigan prisons etc.
People connected to those scandals were sent to Abu Ghraib by the
USDoJ of all people.


Somebody else not me. I'm a faith based human rights worker. I'm a
social and political conservative.

I know more about Abu Ghraib than you I suspect.