nicholas

Thank you Teresita. At first I could not understand why the Lord's will was
that I do NOT killfile you right away. I killfiled all the others after a
few insults, lies, name calling, and sheer hatred. But it's obvious to me
now why I was not to killfile you right off. Your posts regarding many
doctrines of the Roman Catholic church have afforded me the opportunity to
share with everyone on EACH POINT you brought forth (that I saw) that your
church is 100% wrong. Absolutely every single post you shared has been
proven a lie by simply opening a Bible. I see clearly now why I was to
"tolerate" your post. You have blessed MANY Catholics with the proof that
your religion is NOT of God at all.

CASE IN POINT...

THE CONVERTS CATECHISM OF CATHOLIC DOCTRINE (112 pages)
By Rev. Peter Geiermann, C. SS. R.
B. Herder Book Co.
15 & 17 South Broadway
St. Louis, Mo. 1946

Out of the 448 Questions in this book of Catholic doctrine there were 776
answers due to the fact that many of the questions had multiple answers.
Some had as many as 17 answers to a single question. Out of all these
questions regarding "Catholic Doctrine" there were only 56 Bible verses
listed! And more than 75% of those Bible verses were taken completely out of
context! But let's give the Vatican the benefit of a doubt and "assume" that
all 56 Bible verses were "in context" shall we? That would mean, 56 Bible
verses used for 776 answers equating to 13.8% of the questions having Bible
verses given to explain them. That means 86.2% of the answers were NOT found
in the Bible!

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this
rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against
it.

This single verse PROVES the Catholic church is NOT of Jesus! Historic fact
is, the gates of hell have prevailed against this church from the beginning
and will do so all the way until it's SOON demise!

The only reason I am making everyone know about this, is because some of you
HAVE been killfiled by me, and may think I am being unfair with you. You may
think, why did I killfile you, and not Teresita?

Well... to put it plainly...

I saw how the Lord could be glorified by Teresita's comments. Catholics will
read her stuff. She actually "trys" to use a Bible to slam the truth many of
us embrace. Misdirected, and out of context yes, but she still uses it. Her
100% failure has been seen now! And not by just a few.

PLUS... at least Teresita doesn't do as the others do. They simply seek to
fling HATE. Seriously, look at some of the posts in this NG. It's nothing
but HATE HATE HATE. Nothing constructive at all, just hate. At least with
Teresita one can use her to expose Satan in her very own church. Teresita is
"somewhat" sincere in her posts, and that makes my job so much easier. I
truly believe she believes this fiction her priests are telling her. And
with that, she is easy to manipulate into the next topic. She has a zeal to
protect her church, and so I must be wise as a serpent, yet harmless as a
dove.

PLUS.. many of the Catholics or even other faiths that "may" have been
persuaded by Rome's crafty bible twisting lies probably stopped by her site
to see who she REALLY is. That helped immensely I'm sure. For it is plainly


eyes as to her "problem."

With that said...

Thank you teresita. You have helped more than you may ever know.

--
....Nicholas
Presents of God ministry
http://www.RemnantofGod.org

POGM Audio Chat room
http://www.RemnantofGod.org/pogmbanner.htm

duke

Actually the gates of hell have never prevailed against the Church. That's why
1 person in 6 in the world population today is Roman Catholic.

Now what there is are sinners, you and me and everybody else, except Christ, who
never sinned. Heb 4:15.

But the Church founded by Christ is unscathed.

susan williams

How can the gates of hell prevail against Rome when she is the one who
dishes it out to others? When Christ said the Gates of Hell shall not
prevail against His church, what was the condition of Pagan religion
that was persecuting it? Did it worry about the gates of hell?
Paganism was a persecuting concept. They didn't worry about it. Rome
never had to worry about it, for her purpose was always to take
control and then to persecute and kill like Paganism!

Does it know who its neighbours are yet? The Apostolic Church did,
for they obeyed the parable of the Good Samaritan and told their
followers not to give place to wrath, but that God will repay.
Vengenace is His!

This is not ROME!

Here is the death mandate against all non-Catholics posted by Ted
Seeber and Terrorsita. It was taught to them by Rome:

=============

A man by the name of Ted Seeber condemned all non-Catholic life when
with approval he told us that:

"NONE of the groups persecuted by the Catholics were living the Bible.
They were living their personal interpretations of God, not the Bible"

You can find that statement here as I submit the evidence:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.religion.christian.adventist&scoring=r&as_drrb=b&as_mind=5&as_minm=10&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=7&as_maxm=10&as_maxy=2001&selm=55de15cf.0110071743.205a5dea%40posting.google.com

Brother Ted revealed that this was done just after the 911 attacks
when America was assessng what a terrorist was with respect to human
life.

Because of the revelation, Ted Seeber had to make an excuse and leave.
He left his website up, but his pictures and other things appeared to
have disappeared from it.

Soon, another killer super-terrorist became insensed at what was done
to Ted Seeber. He then moved out to attack me as I was showing how
Seeber confirmed THAT ROME HADN'T CHANGED. She still has
mass-exterminations as part of her agenda, practice and habits. To
accomplish this she has demons in human form trained to storm all free
media and teach people how they must understand that people will
disagree.

That killer refashioned his name after mine in the reverse and called
himself "William Suzanne." The man then entered with the boldest of
lies, much like John Ashcroft telling us the Patriot Act is
Constitutional!

He comes in telling us that SEEBER DOESN'T SPEAK FOR (or represent)
Rome in his condemnation of all non-Catholics.

I had to ask the super-terrorist more than once why then he wasn't
upset with Seeber for MISREPRESENTING Rome. As usual, the
super-terrorist then moved into an unbridled attack against the
Adventist Church LEAVING THE QUESTION COMPLETELY UNTOUCHED!!

Now some of you may well not be convinced that Ted Seeber condemned
all non-Catholics on the newsgroups. Actually, to this day, even
those on the newsgroups who formerly denied it had to confess that
Seeber did just that, and they went into every manner of defense for
Seeber. As we expose the dialogues, we will more prove this.
However, since we started this work, another person came out more
boldly and gave approval of the deaths of millions of Christians. She
posts under the name of Teresita. When I made mention of that great\0
Christian work Foxe's Book of Martyrs, detailing centuries of
uncountable murders of bible-believing Christians, she referred to the
work as:

"Foxe's Book of Hereticks." She therefore approved of their deaths
because they viewed religion differently:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=b0165u09im%40drn.newsguy.com
1/14/2003

Naturally, we got on her case for her boldness here as we still have
the liberty to do in this free country.

Teresita in response lied to us, telling us that when she called
Foxe's Book of Martyrs "Foxe's Book of Heretics," she was only
referring to the Albigenses of the Protestant Reformation 5/29/2003
who were a minority group of Christians during that time:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bb521t01pej%40drn.newsguy.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl3424526807d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26 lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dbb521t01pej%2540drn.newsguy.com>

How do we know she was lying? The Albigenses were hardly mentioned in
that massive work. Protestants usually have little to say about the
Albigenses BECAUSE BOTH THEMSELVES AND ALL THEIR WORKS WERE COMPLETELY
ANNIHILATED BY ROME! But more proof that she was lying comes in her
next response as she worked to divert from my advancing questions:

Teresita belied her claim that she was only refering to the Albigenses
when she condemned the Christian martyrs as "hereticks" by condemning
Tyndale, who was not one of the Albigenses:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bcfbru0230p%40drn.newsguy.com>

NEXT:

When pressed further and further to reveal her beliefs she is trained
to hide on the matter of the value of human life, Teresita says the
Vatican merely carried out God's commands when they killed millions of
Christians because the Israelites did the same with their enemies.
Here she is freely admitting what all those "Anti-Catholics" and
"Catholic-haters" have been saying all along:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl270768597d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bb5kmo0vt2%40drn.newsguy.com>

Here is that dialogue below:

From: Teresita (teresita@newsguy.com)
Subject: Re: Teresita responds inappropriatly

Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.adventist,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, tnn.religion.catholic
Date: 2003-05-29 12:05:31 PST
In article <6s6bdv0l317i6dfjs86mheig36vm8nec6s@4ax.com>, Susan says...


Teresita replies:
We merely carried out God's commandment in His Eternal Word:

Deuteronomy 17:2-5 "If there is found among you, within any of your
towns which the Lord your God gives you, a man or woman who does what
is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his
covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or
the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have
forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it; then you shall
inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an
abominable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring forth
to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you
shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."


ARE YOU LISTENING HOMELAND SECURITY??? She claims the scriptures
mandated their actions IN THE NEW TESTAMENT!! Is it the New Testament
now? Do those scriptures still exist now and have weight now IN THE
NEW TESTAMENT??

LASTLY AND MOST STRONGLY:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl175085396d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=bkkqlo0b0g%40drn.newsguy.com

After telling us that just to expose these facts about Rome she is now
boldly admitting is hatred, what would happen if we took a look at
what ANTI-PROTESTANTISM always was throughout the ages? When we
brought this issue about hatred up for her condemning the lives of all
non-Catholics, this is how she declared Rome didn't hate her victims
she was killing: I wrote:
In article <3dqrmvoit629haa6l7dk45d4e25165n5ev@4ax.com>, Susan Williams says...


Teresita replies:
It's nothing personal. It's just business.

--
Encyclopedia Teresita

Nw the man who was ready to pull out his hair telling us that Ted
Seeber didn't represent Rome when he condemned the lives of all
non-Catholics is nowhere to be found with Teresita boldly confirming
the same. Instead he attacks the Adventist Church as a dangerous
cult:
Super-terrorist William Suzanne:


Susan Williams:
True Adventist are not like that. The problem is that demon-possessed
killers from the Antichrist such as William Suzanne have infiltrated
our church to the CORE. That is why when Ted Seeber condemned all
non-Catholics to persecution and death, Paul Tooley came in to lie
claimng that he didn't do that, and then attacked me for exposing him.
They are trying to tell us that is standard behavior for Adventiss and
that I am not one.

Antichrist Andrew then attacked, claiming that by Brother Ted
frequently posting, he has childhood trauma and a dysfunctional home.
All of these said not the slightest word against the man who condemned
them to death.

COMPARE THE ISSUES THE SUPER-TERRORIST IS BRINGING AGAINST THE
ADVENTIST CHURCH WITH WHAT I'M SHIOWING YOU AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD
PREFER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD! William Suzanne:


Susan Williams:
Will Adventists tell you that you must protect a man who has condemned
the lives of all non-Catholics? Will they then tell you that a person
who exposes such a person is hateful and Satans child as William
Suzanne, Lamarr Edwards, "Adventist" Paul Tooley and "Adventist"
Andrew have done?

COMPARE THE ISSUES THE SUPER-TERRORIST IS BRINGING AGAINST THE
ADVENTIST CHURCH WITH WHAT I'M SHIOWING YOU AND SEE WHAT YOU WOULD
PREFER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD! William Suzanne:


Susan Williams:
I would tell anyone that. But do you know folks that the major reasn
Rome has shed more blood than any institution on earth was because all
those centuries of the Christian era SHE HAS BEEN SAYING THAT SHE WAS
THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH?? Do you know that she recently published a
public do***ent REAFFIRMING THIS??

Now the man is telling us the Adventist Church is trying to hide the
claim. Rome doesn't hide the claim. Would something smell bad if the
Evangelical community accepts Rome anyway even though her claims to be
the true church always invovles the shedding of much blood to those
who disagree?

Watch the demon work: William Suzanne:

Susan Williams:
Now listen to what the Protestants used to say BEFORE, so that we can
figure out if something has taken possession of them:

"But even with such a great cloud of witnesses, one might be tempted
to ask the following question, 'Has not Rome changed recently?' To
answer this most vital question, I turn once again to the message of
D. Martyn Lloyd Jones:

'Ah, but,' you say, 'has not the Roman Catholic Church changed? You
are simply looking back, you are speaking as if you lived in the 16th
century - don't you realize you are living in the 20th century?

My answer is quite simple. The proudest boast of the Roman Catholic
Church is this, that she never changes, Semper eadem. How can she
change? If she changes she will be admitting that she was wrong in the
past - but she was saying then that she was infallible, and that the
Pope is the Vicar of Christ and that he cannot make a mistake. If she
says that she is capable of change she is denying her central claim!
She does not say that she is changing, and she never will. The Church
of Rome remains the same.

If anything, she is even worse. She has 'added' things to what she
taught in the 16th century, such as Papal infallibility, etc. No,
there is no change in the Church of Rome. And if there ever is one
great world Church, it will be because the Church of Rome has absorbed
all the rest and swallowed them in ignorance!'
============= William Suzanne:


Susan Williams:
What the super-terrorists won't tell you AND WHAT THEY HAVE NOT
RETRACTED! COMPARE THE "CRIMES!":

"If Catholics ever gain a sufficient numerical majority in this
country, religious freedom is at an end. So our enemies say, SO WE
BELIEVE" (The Shepherd of the Valley, official journal of the Bishop
of St Louis, Nov. 23, 1851).

William Suzanne claiming to quote Adventist sources:

Susan Williams:
"No man has a right to choose his religion." -- (New York Freeman,
official journal of Bishops Hughes, Jan. 26, 1852). William Suzanne:

Susan Williams:
"The church . . . does not, and cannot accept, or in any degree favor,
liberty in the Protestant sense of liberty." -- (Catholic World,
April, 1870.)

"Protestantism has not, and never can have, any right where
Catholicity has triumphed." -- (Catholic Review, June, 1875) William Suzanne:

Susan Williams:
"Religious Liberty is merely endured UNTIL THE OPPOSITE CAN BE CARRIED
INTO EFFECT WITHOUT PERIL TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." -- (Rt. Rev.
O'Connor, Bishop of Pittsburgh.)

"The absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings in defense of liberty
of conscience are a most pestilential error--a pest, of all others,
most to be dreaded in a state." -- Encyclical Letter of Pope Pius IX,
August 15, 1854.

"There is, ere long, to be a state religion in this country, and that
state religion is to be the Roman Catholic. . . The Roman Catholic is
to wield his vote for the purpose of securing Catholic ascendancy in
this country." -- (Father Hecker, Catholic World, July, 1870.)

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will
fall by the hands of the Catholic clergy." -- Lafayette

"You ask if the Pope were lord over this land and you were in a
minority, what he would do to you? That, we say, would entirely depend
on cir***stances. If it would benefit the cause of Catholicism, he
would tolerate you: if expedient, he would imprison, banish you,
probably he might even hang you. But be assured of one thing, he would
never tolerate you for the sake of your glorious principles of Civil
and religious liberty." -- (Rambler, one of the most prominent
Catholic papers of England, Sept., 1851.)


WHICH WOULD YOU WANT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!

How about William Suzanne telling us that ELLEN WHITE, dead for almost
100 years, IS THE ANTICHRIST!! When Christ comes, He will smell like
a rose just ressurrecting Ellen White to punish her for destroying the
earth!!

In His Grace,

Susan Williams


__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>

the last church

No religion is 100% wrong.

A bible proves nothing and itself says it is not an authority on anything.

If you haven't kill filed me yet please do! When you do you really
silence yourself, in an undefensible position.


Does "Nicholas" know his bible is written by the RCC?

"Nicholas" BY your fruits we know the darkness of your heart.
You have exposed yourself in public as an example of how not to be.

"Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only what is useful for
building up, as there is need, so that your words may give grace to
those who hear."
Eph4:29
We have seen no offer of Grace from Nicholas.

..


**************************
A preacher is the blind
leading the blind...

The Last Church
http://www.thelastchurch.org
michael@thelastchurch.org

alt.religion.thelastchurch
alt.religion.the-last-church

duke

On 3 Jan 2004 02:00:04 GMT, Susan Williams <SWilliams07171964@hotmail.com>


The Church, the Body of Christ, has never done such a thing. People have, but not the Church.

Rome is not the Church. Rome is people, and all people make mistakes. Heb
4:15.

wilsuzanne

Some people fooled into cult beliefs work very hard for their damnable
masters; top among them is the anti-christ's trumpeter, Transvestite
Ted/Susan!!! This herald has proclaimed:

Believes Jesus actually needs the prayers of men and women!

Ted/Susan
"I would like to take this time out to pray for Jesus" (see
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl627698991d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=j6572v0li5jobmuu5i2attrf0ocsmq6r7c%404ax.com)

------------------------------------

(ONE OF MANY) CONSISTENT SLIPS, PROVING SATANIC ROOTS!!!...

AHA! Notice here that TOTAL LACK OF DENIAL by Ted/Susan that (s)he is
Satanic and so are his/her posts! When they are called Satanic,
he/she merely states they will put them back. Could the evidence and
admitting of guilt be any more plain?

see at http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5f039a16.0301121549.ad83105%40posting.google.com&output=gplain


------------------------------------

DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE MOST BASIC DOCTRINES OF CHRISTIANITY!!!

See how they can't refute the false prophesy of their devil cult
false-prophetess? After a listing of many of her false prophesies,
there is only ONE they THINK they can argue against AND USE IT TO
FALSELY PUT WORDS IN OTHERS' MOUTHS!

Yes they ARE His words(not were). Isn't this sad? This prooves how
non-Christian the cult's members are. They just proved here that they
have no understanding of the basic Christian doctrine of The
Transfiguration written in 3 of the 4 Gospels!!! And their cult CLAIMS
to believe it!!! Here's what the notes from one of their own editions
of the Bible has to say on this passage:

"It is significant that all three Synoptic Gospels record the
narrative of the Transfiguration immediately following this
prediction. There is no break in the narrative-no chapter or verse
division in the Greek original-and furthermore all three mention the
fact that the Transfiguration occurred about a week after this
statement, implying that the event was the fulfilment of the
prediction. The connection between the two sections of narrative seems
to preclude the possibility that Jesus here referred to anything but
the Transfiguration, which was a miniature demonstration of the
kingdom of glory. Undoubtedly Peter so understood it (see 2 Peter
1:16-18) -- Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, [Matthew 16:28]."

This should also be read in conjunction with Acts 11:1

It's an already fulkfilled prophesy. It's an old prediction that was
true by being fulfilled in Biblical times.

Just prooves they are too busy reading the satanic writings of false
prophets and ignoring the Bible.

--------------------------------------------

Of course, many have figured out his devil priestess EG White is evil.
See: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=71b8e9c9.0203111844.1912746d%40posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dantichrist%2Bgroup:alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D71b8e9c9.0203111844.1912746d%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D9

TED/SUSAN HAS PROCLAIMED MANY DIFFERENT POEPLE AS BEING ANTICHRIST AND
IS ALWAYS CHANGING HIS/HER MIND. This is because (s)he is hiding
his/her own satanic agenda.

Some examples are:

Antichrist Cindy
(http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c9dac66d.0203251752.613dded9%40posting.google.com&output=gplain),
Antichrist Ted Seeber
(http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c9dac66d.0205050618.3fd134fd%40posting.google.com&output=gplain),
Antichrist Nicholas II
(http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c9dac66d.0204141737.4cd3ae96%40posting.google.com&output=gplain),
Antichrist Nordmeyer
(http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c9dac66d.0204021357.47fa104b%40posting.google.com&output=gplain)
to name just a few Ted/Susan keeps changing his/her mind about.

-----------------------------------------------

....AND AGAIN BY CALLING THE BIBLE HATE SPEECH!!! TED/SUSAN starts:


WILLIAM RESPONDS:
As the world can see, all the proof of anti-christ that is needed is
here. Below, we will find a historical fact followed by a quote from
THE BIBLE! But Ted/Susan states above that the Word of God are words
of hatred. This is far from the first time this MPD person accused
others of hate when quoting THE BIBLE. Only the Devil and his poor
anit-christ minions would say that quoting from the Bible is spewing
words of hate!

CONTINUES WITH QUOTE FROM WILLIAM'S ORIGINAL POST. NOTICE THE BIBLE
QUOTE WHICH TED/SUSAN SAYS IS "HATRED SHOWN"


My, my. Why would someone call the Word of God "hate speech?"

see it at http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5f039a16.0301121051.602e5237%40posting.google.com&output=gplain

-----------------------------------------------

BLASPHEMOUSLY PROCLAIMING ELLEN WHITE TO BE GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!! TED/SUSAN

WILLIAM
Now, isn't this incredible?!? NOT ONCE has the controversial head
injury of cultist Ellen White ever been mentioned previously! ONLY
Ted/susan brings it up, which shows that (s)he is on the defensive and
has something to hide. Very interesting.

see it at http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=5f039a16.0301121057.11d0fc3f%40posting.google.com

-----------------------------------------------

NON-STOP SERPENT VENOM AND HATE WHEN PRESENTED TRUTH!!! TED/SUSAN


WILLIAM
Notice here how I have been labeled a liar and hater for merely
posting the truth when the ramblings of a possessed soul are posted.
So who is the hater here? Now I'm a killer because this person cannot
handle God's Truth. Only a true demon would so easily trample God's
Commandments with such false witnessing! Again, I ask for prayers for
this soul.


see it at http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=5f039a16.0301121107.22645efc%40posting.google.com

-----------------------------------------------

SEE TED/SUSAN UNABLE TO PRODUCE PROOF OF ACCUSATIONS!!! TED/SUSAN


Notice that it still hasn't been produced?

See it at http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5f039a16.0301121327.483acd3d%40posting.google.com&output=gplain

-----------------------------------------------

TED/SUSAN CANNOT KEEP HIS/HER LIES STRAIGHT!!!

His/her non-stop ramblings about Ted Seeber and calling him a killer
recently produced this result: TED/SUSAN:


See how in the top part Ted/Susan claims Seeber is a killer and then
denies it in the very next reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


see it at http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5f039a16.0301121105.126efb76%40posting.google.com&output=gplain

-----------------------------------------------

In His True Grace,
William Suzanne

thedirkhartog

Mauricius (582- 602)… saw to it that pagans were brought before
the courts 'in every region of the city,' and in particular, in
Carrhae-Harran. Here, the bishop…received the emperor's orders
to institute a persecution. 'Some he managed to convert to
Christianity, while many who resisted he carved up, suspending their
limbs in the main street of the town.' The local troup commander
himself was denounced as a secret pagan. He had passes as a
Christian, his name was 'Danger-free"; yet he was crucified. pg 28
[citing PLRE 3 p. 974 sv]
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 27]
amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ganoriginofthe

Justinian (527 - 565) … pursued the goal of religious uniformity
as no one before him. "He did not see it as murder if the victims did
not share his own beliefs." [Procopius, Anec. 13.7] Those he
disagreed with he was likely to mutilate if he didn't behead or
crucify them…. "There was a great persecution of pagans, and
many lost all their property… A great terror was aroused …
(with) a deadline of three months to be converted." [-- Greg check
source in macmullen] Troops were used to destroy the remotest temples.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 27]
amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ganoriginofthe

Tiberius' (578 - 582) … commander Theophilus, notorious for his
savagery . . . 'Seized many of them and punished them as their
impudence merited, humbling their pride and crucifying and killing
them.' [Joh. Ephes. H.E. 3.28 - & 34, pp 115 & 123f] [Then he]
summon[ed] the [pagan] high priest of Antioch to him at Edessa. The
old man killed himself…his fellow
worshiper…Anatolius…was…tortured, torn up by wild
beasts, then crucified, while his aide died of his tortures. . . Lest
anyone within reach of his voice should doubt whether his severity had
been intended, Tiberius summoned to the palace the entirety of his
highest officialdom and the senate, too, so as to have read aloud to
them, from morning till night, the accounts he had received of the
actions taken at his orders against nonbelievers.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 27]
amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ganoriginofthe

"Some persons have been discovered given over to the error of the
unholy and wicked pagans, performing acts that stir a loving God to
just wrath, [who] offer sacrifice to insensate idols and celebrate
festivals replete with every impiety, even persons who have already
been judged worthy of holy baptism," who henceforth shall be executed.
[Justininian, emperor, Justinian Code, 1.11.10 ]

[During Justinian's forced conversions in the sixth century] a number
of highly placed pagans … escaped baptism by suicide.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. n 27, pg 182]
amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ganoriginofthe


[Of Justinian's troops] … many straightaway went everywhere from
place to place and tried to compel such persons as they met to change
[to Christianity] from their ancestral [pagan] faith. And since such
action seemed unholy to the farmer class, they all resolved to make a
stand against those who brought this message. So, then, while many
were being destroyed by the soldiers and many even made away with
themselves, thinking in their folly that they were doing a most
righteous thing, and while the majority of them, leaving their
homelands, went into exile.."
[Procopius, 11.21]


[T]he bishops assembled in council (at Toledo in 681), like Firmicus
quoting vengeful verses from Deuteronomy, called on the civil
authorities to seize and behead all those guilty of non-Christian
practices of whatsoever sort.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 16]
amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ganoriginofthe

Periodic outbursts, however, of hate-filled mob or gang violence after
the mid-fourth century are indeed recorded ... and the role of the
church leadership in exciting them is clear. The leaders' appeals
could be heard over a general background of terms such as "mad",
"laughable," "loathsome," "disgusting," "contaminating," "wicked,"
"ignorant," and so forth, characteristic of ancient invective and
freely applied by Christians to everything religious that was not also
Christian.
[MacMullen, Ramsay. Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth
Centuries (1997), pg. 13]
amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ganoriginofthe

Dirk Hartog

thedirkhartog

Phooey. Paganism was pure tolerance. Christianity invented religious
hatred and bigotry.

http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_ancient_religion_syncretism.html

"Here's another way ancient civilization was different than ours:
Ancient religious tolerance Two fellows are discussing God. One guy
says to the other one, "I respect your right to worship God in your
way. I hope you'll respect my right to worship Him in His."

"That modern joke wouldn't make sense to an ancient, because ancient
western culture didn't have a notion of "right doctrine." In a sense
they had many Gods but one religion, a fluid polytheistic pantheism.

"At the Temple of Jupiter in the center of Rome believers honored not
just Jupiter, but Serapis, or Dionysus, or Mithras -- and no one
complained.

"Initiates in the the mysteries of Dionysus could and did
simultaneously belong to the mysteries of Isis -- and the mysteries of
Mithras, and the mysteries of Attis.

"Visitors wrote about being told two contradictory versions of a God's
myth and rites -- at the same temple, on the same visit!
Ancient cultures didn't really know there was such a thing as unique
doctrine, so they didn't teach people to care when others disagreed.
There were no religious wars, there were no forced conversions."

Dirk Hartog

john w

External User

 

Posts: 1

x-no-archive:yes


Actually, the BIGGEST church, the Bible teaches, is also VERY likely,
the false church.

Particularly when so many of your "members" were "baptized" even
before they were aware of it.

I can't tell you the "Roman Catholic' baptized atheists I've
encountered in my life. According to Roman doctrine, if they were
"baptized" when they were 2 days old, they can be atheists, but
they'll go to heaven.

Something's wrong with that picture! John W


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duke

Like I said, bad people did bad things, but the Chruch is unscathed.