errol9

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Kelly read 'the riot act'

Click here to enter the Hutton inquiry website

Julia Day
Thursday August 14, 2003


Kelly: remained composed throughout interview
*David Kelly was read a "version of the riot act" by his bosses at the
Ministry of Defence after they found out he had spoken to BBC reporter
Andrew Gilligan.

It also emerged that Dr Kelly was warned by his MoD superiors that further
breaches of guidelines on contact with the press could lead to disciplinary
action.

But even at the end of a severe grilling, his two managers were convinced
that Dr Kelly was not the source of Gilligan's report, the Hutton inquiry
heard today. After admitting he spoke to Gilligan, Dr Kelly was told a
public statement might have to be made and warned that if he was lying, the
truth would catch up with him because it was possible that Gilligan could
have taped their meeting.

Taking the witness stand for the first time today, on the fourth day of the
inquiry, Dr Kelly's immediate line manager, Dr Bryan Wells, told Lord Hutton
of the first of two interviews that took place with Dr Kelly on July 4.

James Dingemans QC, counsel for the inquiry, told the court this interview
between Dr Kelly, Dr Wells and Richard Hatfield, the head of personnel at
the MoD, was nothing short of reading the riot act.

Mr Dingemans asked Dr Wells: "How was Dr Kelly while this version of the
riot act was being read out?"

"He was composed throughout," Dr Wells said.

"It is not comfortable for anyone to receive that kind of message. He was
somewhat uncomfortable but he was expecting the sort of words that Mr
Hatfield said. Mr Hatfield said them in a measured tone and didn't raise his
voice."

But it was clear in court that Dr Kelly had been given a severe dressing
down by Mr Hatfield over his contact with Gilligan during the course of a
one-and-three-quarter-hour interview.

"It was not a formal meeting that might lead to disciplinary action, but
nevertheless in other senses of the word it was formal.

"Mr Hatfield sat on one side of the table, Dr Kelly sat on the other side
and I sat at one end. Dr Kelly had water with him and was offered coffee but
declined it," said Dr Wells, who told the court the interview lasted from
11.30am until 1.15pm without a break.

Mr Dingemans asked Dr Wells whether the object of the interview was to
determine whether a serious offence had taken place and if Dr Kelly's
meeting with Andrew Gilligan had formed the basis of Gilligan's evidence to
the foreign affairs select committee. Dr Wells agreed.

Mr Hatfield, who did all the talking during the interview, warned Dr Kelly
that it might be necessary to issue a public statement about his dealings
with Gilligan.

Dr Wells told the court Dr Kelly was asked to summarise his contact with
Gilligan and reflect on his meeting with the journalist. "It was stressed
that the meeting could turn out to be very important," Dr Wells told the
court.

"It might become necessary to consider a public statement," Dr Wells said
that Mr Hatfield had told Dr Kelly.

"He [Mr Hatfield] reminded Dr Kelly it was possible that he might have been
tape recorded. Dr Kelly understood but he stood by his account."

Mr Dingemans pressed Dr Wells on what his understanding was of why it might
have been necessary to make a public statement.

"I didn't take a view one way or the other," said Dr Wells.

Mr Dingemans then asked Dr Wells if it was unusual for a civil servant to be
named as Dr Kelly was.

"It probably is. But we are not dealing with usual cir***stances," replied
Dr Wells, who went on to say that neither Dr Kelly's words or body language
displayed any discomfort.

But there was little comfort for Dr Kelly in Mr Hatfield's words. Dr Wells
said: "Mr Hatfield said that Dr Kelly's contact with Andrew Gilligan was
particularly ill-judged and that he would write to him shortly.

"He warned that any further breaches would almost certainly lead to
disciplinary action," said Dr Wells.

He did not say what that disciplinary action was.

Mr Hatfield's summing up of notes of the meeting said there appeared to be
consistencies between Gilligan's testimony to the FAC and what Dr Kelly says
he said to Gilligan.

But there were also significant discrepancies. In particular, Dr Kelly
denied having knowledge of the 45-minute claim until after the dossier was
published.

Mr Hatfield said he felt some of Dr Kelly's words may have been part of the
background to Gilligan's stories, but was satisfied Dr Kelly was not the
source of the BBC journalist's story.

It then emerged that Dr Kelly was hauled in front of Mr Hatfield for a
second time on Monday, July 7 when Martin Howard, the deputy head of defence
intelligence staff at the MoD and Dr Wells were also present.

Dr Kelly's training with the Iraq security group at RAF Honnington was
interrupted when he was called back to London for the second interview.

Dr Wells told the court what happened when he was leaving the RAF base after
giving a pep talk to the weapons inspectors: "I was returning home, because
I was on leave. While travelling home, Mr Hatfield called me and said he had
been asked to conduct a further interview with Dr Kelly and he needed to do
that as quickly as possible."

Mr Dingemans asked Dr Kelly if he had questioned Mr Hatfield as to why a
second interview was taking place. Dr Wells replied: "I just acted. I needed
to be cautious about what I said on a mobile line."

Dr Kelly was told to get himself to London as quickly as possible, and the
second grilling took place at four o'clock that Monday afternoon.

Mr Dingemans asked Dr Wells what Dr Kelly's attitude had been at the second
interview and Dr Wells paused for some time before replying.

"I can't recall exactly. He didn't appear anything other than composed."

· To contact the MediaGuardian newsdesk email editor@mediaguardian.co.uk or
phone 020 7239 9857

pahammond

Very unprofessional evidence. No weblink address given and no title to a
newsaper article either.........................Errol

crollins

Errol,

This is an interesting coverage of Dr. Kelly's "dressing down." I
wonder if such a confrontation with his supervisor or even a
disciplinary action would be enough to lead him to suicide? Even the
Japanese don't go that far, do they? Of course, I don't know anything
about the English mentality or how the concept of "face" is played among
English higher-ups, but I know Americans wouldn't give such doings to
them much of a second-thought. In fact, they would serve as the
opportunity to write a book and make some money.

Has there been any conclusive determination made as to Dr. Kelly's cause
of death? --Cal

errol9

in article 11288-3F3BB5D8-151@storefull-2333.pu...wson.webtv.net, Cal E.

Cal,

The purpose of the inquiry is to find out the reasons why a member of the
baha'i Faith Dr kelly killed himself. The Prime Minister ordered the
inquiry and it is being paid for by government.

Unlike other suicides, this one is interlinked with political,and religious
Baha'i chicanery (We must get our holy shrines back in Baghdad whether the
UN supports the war or not) involving do***ents the september/ Feburary
dossier, a WMD scientist, BBC Journalists, the intelligence service, Tony
Blair and some members of his government, top officials from the Ministry
of Defense and Foreign office and last but not least the Bahai Faith.

Like you said Cal Kelly would have been better retiring (he had only year to
go to pension) and write a best seller autobiography based on his life
experiences. Unfortunately real life can be stranger than fiction.

Kellys last e/mail before he dies was to a new York journalist called Miller
and he wrote " DARK ACTORS PLAYING GAMES" I wonder was he speaking about all
these witnesses at the inquiry or the hanyy panky goings on within the
Baha'i AO. We dont know yet which Baha'i witnesses is to be called. I hope
the Bahai witness is obedient to Baha'i adminstration and refuses to sware
on the Bible and instead sware on the the Kitab-I-Iqan to tell the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him/her Baha'u'llah.

Here is another interesting website following the kelly inquiry, it is
updated regularily...................Errol

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:PpsyKPQF41wJ:www.contrarianthinker.com/
kellys%2520lie.htm++Kellys+last+e/mail+dark+actors+playing+games+&hl=en&ie=U
TF-8

errol9

in article bhl9di$lot$10@titan.btinternet.com, Dermod Ryder at grim_reaper

Cal asked me what was the inquiry about, I answered his post.
Please show me the evidence in my post where I have formed a *conclusion*
who was responsible for Kellys suicide?...................Errol

dermod ryder

"Unlike other suicides, this one is interlinked with political,and religious
Baha'i chicanery." I believe you wrote this purported statement of fact
which clearly and uneqivocally states that Dr Kelly's death was as a result
of suicide and was linked directly to nefarious misdeeds undertaken by
Bahais.

No inquest has been held into Dr Kelly's death - there is therefore no
definitive statement that it was suicide. The evidence relating to the
cir***stances and cause of death is not in the public domain - you have no
access to it and therefore cannot make any factual statement thereon.

It is unclear from this sentence whether you separate the political and
religious chicanery as being of separate origins - the political from one or
many parties or both from the Bahais. In either case you presume to make a
purported statement of fact for which you have no definitive evidence. To
state that Bahaism could benefit from a regime change in Iraq is undeniable
but it is a far stretch from that to providing evidence that it took active
steps to conspire to bring about such a regime change. This you have not
done. - merely providing speculative musings and unconnected cir***stantial
events.

I would like to see hard evidence before making up my mind.

errol9

in article bhlki4$87g$1@hercules.btinternet.com, Dermod Ryder at grim_reaper


If there was 100% proof the Baha'i Faith had *no* involvement with Kellys
religious life leading up to his suicide Lord Hutton would not have stated
that he wished a member of the Bahai Faith as a possible witness.

Dermod, over the past two to three years you of all ex-bahais have written
accusing the Baha'i AO of being up to all sorts of deceitful and cunning
tricks. Do you not think you are being a bit hypocritical because I happen
to make such a statement "Unlike other suicides, this one is interlinked
with political,and religious Baha'i chicanery."?

Dermod watch you dont fall and break your halo, next you will be sending
Baha'i love notes to dear Susan with Baha'i quotes attached.

Errol

pat kohli

I was not aware that the Baha'is in Baathist Iraq were any more oppressed than
anyone else. To my knowledge, the Ba'athists were sympathetic to religious
minorities, so long as they spoke Arabic, or something resembling it, like
Assyrian.

(snip)

Though I am not prepared to deny that regime change will be good for the Baha'is
of Iraq, I do wonder how things were bad for Baha'is under the Ba'athists?

Best wishes,
- Pat

crollins

Errol9,

I doubt Dermod would ever be sending love-notes to Susan with Mrs.
Dermod watching over his shoulder at every opportunity and reading his
messages when he is asleep. I think about the best we can hope for in
the Seduction of Dermod is when he starts signing his posts, "Warmly
Dermod." Then we know the Mouton has come to Muhammad and the Dragon
Lady and the Prince of Darkness have joined forces to plough asunder the
unrighteous.

What I'm truly waiting for is an amalgamation of Susan and Nima. "Great
day in the morning!" my father used to say when he threw a particularly
good hand of craps or won at the poker table. --Cal

errol9

in article 3F3E87D6.8062AE7C@ameritel.net, Pat Kohli at


Universal House of Justice

Ridván 2003 [April 21]

That the events of this crisis directly affect a territory
with as rich a Bahá'í legacy as Iraq is particularly noteworthy.

3.**The disruptions caused by this and other situations in the world have,
in one instance, suggested the **opening of a new chapter** in the history
of the highly prized but woefully **oppressed** Bahá'í community of a land
in which the Manifestation of God for this Day resided for a whole decade.

The Universal House of Justice http://bahai-library.org/published.uhj/ridvan/2003.html