father nature

Hopefully this will be an eye opener in the ongoing separation of church and
state arguments:

In Casper, Wyo. they have been under attack for having a monument for the 10
commandments in a public park, the courts have ruled that if they have this
monument they must allow any religion to have monuments within the park.

Along comes Phelps (an anti-*** preacher) who wishes to erect a second
monument in the park declaring that a young man who was brutally beaten and
left for dead (Shepard) was in hell for being *** - saying the presence of
the Ten Commandments means all monuments must be allowed. Supposedly this
park is the location where the victim discovered it was ok to be *** and
Phelps has thrown several protests here and at the sight of the slayings. I
won't repeat any more of his hate filled messages and am just thankful that
he has such a small following.

Admittedly this is still just two christian monuments (no other religions
have offered to put up monuments), but the town is very upset about this and
it looks like there is no way out without removing the original monument or
facing numerous lawsuits.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/10/27/build/wyoming/35-tencommandments.inc
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1480707

Hopefully out of all this ugliness the courts will define a better
definition of separation of church and state, one where all religions are
more fairly represented.

Father Nature

songweaver

The group that donated the original monument has said that they'd remove
it before allowing Phelps to put up his monument to religiously-inspired
hatred. When the story appeared on Witchvox, someone came up with a
nice idea. Let Phelps put it up, but then surround it with larger
statues of angels, their wing outspread, thus obliterating the view of
Phelps's monstrosity. Apparently, at Matthew's funeral, bystanders
surrounded his family so they wouldn't have to face Phelps and his small
group who were protesting the service, and this would be reminiscent of
that.

Blessings,
Songweaver

deanne roberts

Another solution used in some communities is to have a local church buy the
little bit of land the monument is on that way it is no longer on public
land.

De

gwendolyn ann smith

More specifically, these bystanders were part of an "Angel Action"
(which was born at that protest), with large "angel" costumes with big
wings that effectively block out Phelps' clan.

This gives a good idea of what an "Angel Action" looks like:
http://www.yffn.org/angels/

Putting such around Phelps' hateful monument would be apt.

Cheers,
Gwen Smith --

/---\ | "I Want this to be a harmony of voices" | --/-0-\--
c\- -/c | -- Lauren D. Wilson | \\ //
||\-/|| |_________________________________________| /\-/\

baird

<snip>

Last I read, the City Council of Casper was thinking seriously about
selling the parcel of land on which the Decalogic monument stands to a
private buyer, in order to remove it from City control/ownership - and
thereby to avoid the whole church/state controversy. My impression is
that they began looking at that possibility before the Phelps cretin
started his newest hate campaign.

My information, by the way, comes from the last (I think, or the last
but one) issue of THE ADVOCATE - who keep up with such things.

Blessed be,
Baird

mist42nz

Don't they have to seek public approval in the form of council
permission before erecting a structure on public land?
Surely there must be a submissions process that lets the public voice
their opposition.
Side with the Christian brothers and sisters (if their monument isn't
gastly and say we respect a small show and confirmation/celebration
of all religions but neither us or the Christian church condones
criminals (the murder) or hate crimes (as proven by the act of
murder.)
If the 10commandments monument is hideous and unavoidable, then a
religion free zone is a harder course but if it's not in-your-face
then it would serve good purpose in reminding us that we share our
communities of others that do not have our beliefs and perhaps we too
counld add a small religious token (maybe a tree

in the darkness

I am ordering a Granite plaque to put right next to this
persons religious free speech monument....


On One Side:

Leviticus 20:9

For every one that curseth his father
or his mother shall be surely put to death:

On the Other:

Wicca 1:01

Lest Ye Forget the Horrors of Antiquity.

gwendolyn ann smith

Correcting myself. They were *popularized* at that protest, but not
*born* there.

Cheers,
Gwen Smith --

/---\ | gwen@gwensmith.com - http://www.gwensmith.com | --/-0-\--
c\- -/c | "I Want this to be a harmony of voices" | \\ //
||\-/|| | -- Lauren D. Wilson | /\-/\

yowie

Stories like these make me sad. There is no love of compassion in that man's
heart, just hate - hate for the world, hate for himself, and (dare I say it)
hate for what he knows as "god". I am sure that Jesus, whether just a great
teacher, or God incarnate, would have knealt by the grave of the young man
that died, and wept. How is this madman's behaviour demonstrating "Love God,
Love your neighbour" that is the core teaching of Christianity? Think Jesus
would give Phelphs a good lashing of his tongue, actually!

The angels and other signs of love and peace are a great idea, IMHO, and can
from a variety of different faiths, showing that the comunity stands
together on this one.

People like Phelps are the ones responsible for me not wanting to be
asocaited with Christianity any more.

Yowie

father nature

The courts have already stated the majority public opinion can not decide in
issues like this, it has to stand on issues of fairness.

If they allow one religious monument to stand they must allow them all, and
this is just the tip of the iceberg since it is two christian monuments
here, think how it will affect things when we start talking about buddhist,
wiccan, or... to go to the non-violent extreme: ralph the head of lettuce
monuments. In order to avoid a government endorsed church they must allow
all religious viewpoints or none, selling the land or any other action
except removing all religious monuments will result in lawsuits the city
will not win.

To be honest, although I would like to see a place where beautiful wiccan
monuments* can be seen side-by-side with thoughtful, insightful buddhist,
christian, etc... monuments to teach people diversity and respect for
religions I know that there would be religious viewpoints I just can't
stomach such as the message brought forth by Phelps who has said "***s
should be publicly executed".

The only viable option is to eliminate religious viewpoints from government
sanction and to treat all religions equally and fairly. No one religion can
have precedence or preferential treatment.

Father Nature

* the monument in mind would be a stone tablet within the triple moon )0(
with the phrase "harm none" the only words on the page. I figure that would
last a few weeks longer than if a pentacle was included ;-)