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1 9th April 20:39
heidi graw
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Default Rydberg: III.27. Sorcercy...Gullveig-Heidr...Moral Deterioration... (evil witchcraft giants women death)


http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/027.php

Part 3


27.
SORCERY THE REVERSE OF THE SACRED RUNES. GULLVEIG-HEIDR, THE SOURCE OF
SORCERY. THE MORAL DETERIORATION OF THE ORIGINAL MAN.

But already in the beginning of time evil powers appear for the purpose of
opposing and ruining the good influences from the world of gods upon
mankind. Just as Heimdal, "the fast traveller," proceeds from house to
house, forming new ties in society and giving instruction in what is good
and useful, thus we soon find a messenger of evil wandering about between
the houses in Midgard, practising the black art and stimulating the worst
passions of the human soul. The messenger comes from the powers of frost,
the enemies of creation. It is a giantess, the daughter of the giant HrÝmnir
(Hyndluljˇ­ 32 = V÷luspß in Skamma 4), known among the gods as Gullveig and
by other names (see Nos. 34, 35), but on her wanderings on earth called
Hei­r. "Heid they called her (Gullveig) when she came to the children of
men, the crafty, prophesying vala, who practised sorcery (vitti ganda),
practised the evil art, caused by witchcraft misfortunes, sickness, and
death (leikin, see No. 67), and was always sought by bad women." Thus
V÷luspß describes her. The important position Heid occupies in regard to the
corruption of ancient man, and the consequences of her appearance for the
gods for man, and for nature (see below), have led V÷luspß's author, in
spite of his general poverty of words, to describe her with a certain
fullness, pointing out among other things that she was the cause of the
first war in the world. That the time of her appearance was during the life
of Borgar and his son shall be demonstrated below.

In connection with this moral corruption, and caused by the same powers
hostile to the world, there occur in this epoch such disturbances in nature
that the original home of man and culture - nay, all Midgard - is threatened
with destruction on account of long, terrible winters. A series of connected
myths tell of this. Ancient artists - forces at work in the growth of
nature - personifications of the same kind as Rigveda's Ribhus, that had
before worked in harmony with the gods, become, through the influence of
Loki, foes of Asgard, their work becoming as harmful as it before was
beneficent, and seek to destroy what Odin had created (see Nos. 111 and
112). Idun, with her life-renewing apples, is carried by Ůjazi away from
Asgard to the northernmost wilderness of the world, and is there concealed.
Freyja, the goddess of fertility, is robbed and falls into the power of
giants. Frey, the god of harvests, falls sick. The giant king Snow and his
kinsmen Ůorri (Black Frost), J÷kull (the Glacier), &c., extend their
sceptres over Scandia.

Already during Heimdal's reign, after his protÚgÚ Borgar had grown up,
something happens which forebodes these terrible times, but still has a
happy issue.
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2 9th April 20:39
heidi graw
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Default Rydberg: III.27. Sorcercy...Gullveig-Heidr...MoralDeterioration... (speech sense)


...and just how strong is the evidence for Freya's parentage? Is it Niord
and Nerthus or Niord and Skadi? Is Skadi's father Thiazzi the son of
Hrimnir? To claim to be a daughter of someone doesn't necessarily mean
she's the product of a father, but rather of a daughter of a clan that's
existed for generations...she *could be* the daughter as in the sense of
figurative speech...daughter of her great-grandfather on the maternal side!

As for Rydberg pointing to Voluspa Skamma 4....Is Rydberg refering to a
differently ordered and numbered poem? The Carolyne Larrington version uses
the ordering and numbering system of Neckel and Kuhn.

Heidi
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3 11th April 12:55
asvinr
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Default Rydberg: III.27. Sorcercy...Gullveig-Heidr...Moral Deterioration... (evil witchcraft law women death)


Hej All,


But already in the beginning of time evil powers appear for the purpose
of opposing and ruining the good influences from the world of gods upon
mankind. Just as Heimdal, "the fast traveller," proceeds from house to
house, forming new ties in society and giving instruction in what is
good
and useful, thus we soon find a messenger of evil wandering about
between the houses in Midgard, practising the black art and stimulating
the worst passions of the human soul. The messenger comes from the
powers of frost, the enemies of creation.

***********

Heid's travels are mentioned in Voluspa 22. She travels between human
homes, like Heimdall did, but spreading the evil arts.

Larrington translates the name Heid as "Bright One". If you compare
verses 21 and 22, it's apparent that Heid is another name for Gullveig.
The name Gullveig is found nowhere else (even Snorri doesn't mention
her!). Thus, the name Heid is the only avenue we have for
investigation. Fortunately, we do find other references to a witch
named Heid.

************************

She is a giantess, the daughter of the giant HrÝmnir (Hyndluljˇ­ 32
= V÷luspß in Skamma 4), known among the gods as Gullveig and by other
names, but on her wanderings on earth called Hei­r.


Voluspa 22:

"Heid [Bright One] they called her (Gullveig) when she came to the
children of
men, the crafty, prophesying vala, who practised sorcery (vitti ganda),
practised the evil art, caused by witchcraft misfortunes, sickness, and
death, and was always sought by bad women."

*************

The lines in the verse about what Heid actually does are very difficult
to interpret and has many possible meanings. She's practicing
witchcraft, under any cir***stances. The scholars agree on this.


A full investigation of who Heid, Hrimnir's daughter is is coming in
the next few chapters. She is most likely identical to Loki's "wife"
Angrboda and the mother of the three monsters: Fenrir, Jormungand and
"Hel". She is likely identical to Gerd's mother Aurboda, and thus
becomes Frey's mother-in-law. The gods burn her three times, and three
times she is reborn. She thus is also called Hyrokinn (the fire-smoked)
and is the giantess called to push out Baldur's ship. She can be shown
to be Gymir-Aegir's wife, and thus is also probably identical to Ran.

Details of that argument are coming up soon......


Wassail, William
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4 11th April 12:55
asvinr
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Posts: 1
Default Rydberg: III.27. Sorcercy...Gullveig-Heidr...Moral Deterioration... (speech sense points)


...and just how strong is the evidence for Freya's parentage? Is it
Niord
and Nerthus or Niord and Skadi? Is Skadi's father Thiazzi the son of
Hrimnir? To claim to be a daughter of someone doesn't necessarily mean

she's the product of a father, but rather of a daughter of a clan
that's
existed for generations...she *could be* the daughter as in the sense
of
figurative speech...daughter of her great-grandfather on the maternal
side!

*********

Hej Heidi,

The only sure parent of Freyja is Njord, her father. Snorri informs us
that she is Njord's daughter, and in Thrymskvida 22, she is called
Njord's daughter. Her mother is unnamed.

Frey is often said to be the son of Njord (for example, Skirnismal 38,
39, & 41), and, in Lokasenna 36, his mother is said to be Njord's
sister. The sister is unnamed.

Frey is called the son of Njord and Skadi in Skirnismal, but this is
likely because at that point Njord and Skadi were married, and as the
son of Njord, Frey could also be called the "son" of Njord's wife.
Skirnir addressing Skadi, calls Frey "your son". While, he is most
likely her step-son.

There is no evidence that Skadi is Njord's sister. If so, then Njord's
father would have to be the giant Thjazzi. As we progress, you'll see
that Thjazi is likely a half-giant, half-elf smith, whom is also known
as Volund, the elf-smith. Thjazi is the son of Olvaldi or Allvaldi (who
is probably identical to Ivaldi, Idunn's father). His mother is the
giantess Greip. In the poem Haustlong, he is called "the son of Greip's
wooer".


That's all we have to go on. The mother of Frey and Freyja is unnamed,
but cir***stancial evidence points to Nerthus-Jord, who is identical to
Odin's wife, Frigg.


******************************************

As for Rydberg pointing to Voluspa Skamma 4....Is Rydberg refering to a

differently ordered and numbered poem? The Carolyne Larrington version
uses
the ordering and numbering system of Neckel and Kuhn.

****************************

In his original text, Rydberg actually refers to Hyndluljod. The poem
Hyndluljod is found in a single manuscript. However, Snorri cites one
of the verses and refers to it as being from a poem titled Voluspa in
Skamma, or the Short Voluspa. Thus, Icelandic scholars have taken a
piece of Hyndluljod, identified it as the poem Snorri was referring to
based on scholarly reasons, not any manuscript, and called it Voluspa
in Skamma. When Eysteinn Bj÷rnsson, an Icelander, edited the Rydberg
text, he used the Icelandic edition of the Elder Edda by Gudni Jonsson,
who breaks the poem Voluspa in Skamma out of Hyndluljod. English
translations tend not to do this. Icelandic ones do.

Wassail, William
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5 11th April 12:55
heidi graw
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Posts: 1
Default Rydberg: III.27. Sorcercy...Gullveig-Heidr...Moral Deterioration... (clear)


Hi William,
Are you keeping a clear record of all this rather confusing genealogy? With
so many different names for the deities, I'm finding it really hard to keep
track of these things. It would be nice to have a chart of the various
families where each member's numerous names are also included. This would
really give me a much clearer picture. (snip)


Ah...o.k... that helps explain why I couldn't find the relevant verse. This
is something you might want to make a note of if you're going to update
Rydberg's works.

Thanks once again! ;-)

Heidi
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6 11th April 12:55
asvinr
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Posts: 1
Default Polynomy: Multiple Names for Individual Gods (trinity order clear points association)


Hi William,
Are you keeping a clear record of all this rather confusing genealogy?
With
so many different names for the deities, I'm finding it really hard to
keep
track of these things. It would be nice to have a chart of the various

families where each member's numerous names are also included. This
would
really give me a much clearer picture.


*************

Hej Heidi,

I used to keep such lists, but don't have any handy anymore.

I'm familar with the sources and no longer find it a problem, although
I completely understand that others do, and why.

Odin has a large number of names, so it stands to reason that the other
gods and mythic characters are known by other names as well. We find
much evidence of this. Snorri catalogs many of the names of the other
dieties, such as Freyja and Thor. However, it would be foolish to think
that Snorri Edda contains all there is to know about the identites of
the various characters. The Eddaic poems themselves contain some names
(such as Rig and Gullveig) that Snorri doesn't mention at all. This use
of multiple names for a single character is common in Indo-European
mythologies, and is called "polynomy."

Rydberg doesn't simply combine characters, he investigates the mythic
accounts of each one to see if their names might simply be an epithet
of another well-known character, used in a fragmented source. If he
finds significant points of contact, only then does he combine their
mythic adventures into a longer thread. In every instance, these
combined fragments complement one another, and the story-arcs in them
naturally dovetail one another into a longer story, suggesting that
they were once parts of the same story in the oral epic.

In Volume II (my translation), Rydberg writes:

The work of identification is that much more necessary, since the
synonyms are so extraordinarily rich in Germanic mythology. But
synonyms are by no means characteristic of it. Even Rigveda's gods
and heroes are polynomous and the work of identification, carefully and
methodically undertaken, is necessary within its scope as well. Here
are a few examples from the abundance of Vedic names and epithets, with
the added observation that some of these epithets were used exclusively
as names. (A definite boundary between names and epithets can never be
drawn, because a name is nothing more than an ancient epithet with a
stronger grounding and wider usage). Indra is called Maghavan, Sűri,
Vrishan, Nrinarya, ăakra, Vritrahan, Dasyuhan, and Yajnavriddha. VÔta
is also called VÔju and Vivasvat. The Asvins are also the NÔsatyas.
Agni is called VaišvÔnara, Višvacarshani, Višvakrishti,
TanűnapÔt, and Narašamsa.

Greek mythology also is rich in synonyms; The Roman overflows with
them.

Many may realize that synonymy was a burden on the minds of the
professors of their respective religions, which confused their
mythological concepts. One ought to assume that such a wealth of names
and epithets could not be grasped in due order and passed on from
generation to generation, if a priest class did not exist with duties
in this regard. The assumption may thus follow that the great number of
divine names and divine epithets were known and used only within a
narrow circle of priests and skalds.
It requires care, however, in adopting views that seem as reasonable as
these. Within certain boundaries, synonymy is a light load that one can
bear without a thought to its existence.

Is the Christian religion and its do***ents burdened with synonymy? I
posed this question once, and the first instantaneous answer was
"no"; the second response, which came after a little consideration,
was "yes." God, the Creator, the Eternal, the All-mighty, the
All-seeing, the Lord, the King of Heaven, Lord Zebaoth, the Father are
all names that designate one divine being. The same being is called
Providence and Heaven (in expressions such as "It was Heaven's
decision," "It was Heaven's decree"); the last designation is
as equally heathen as it is pious. One who is knowledgeable about the
Bible knows that the first person in the trinity, moreover, is called
Jehovah, Adonai, and Elohim. The second person in the trinity is called
Jesus, Messiah, Christ, God's lamb, the Son, God's son, the son of
David, the son of Mary, the son of man, the Master, the Nazarene, the
Savior, the Redeemer, the Deliverer, the Crucified, etc. Mary is the
Mother of God, the Holy Virgin, and during the whole of the Middle Ages
she was known as the "Star of the Sea." The sons of Zebedee are
called Boanerges ; Peter is actually named Simon, and Paul is actually
named Saul. The evangelist Matthew has been identified with the tax
collector Levi. Bartholomew is actually named Nathanial. Lebbaeus is
considered identical with Judas Jacob's son and also designated as
Thaddeus. Simon the Canaanite bears the name Zelotes. The evangelist
Mark is actually named John (Acts of the Apostles 12:12). Barnabas,
before he receives this epithet, is named Joseph or Joses. Along with
the verbal synonymy comes a visual synonymy of which knowledge was less
widespread, but which was absolutely no burden on the mind for those
who possessed it. Many know that a triangle or an eye surrounded by
rays is a symbol of the All-seeing, that a lamb with a banner is a
symbol of Christ and that a dove is a symbol of the Holy Ghost. Nor is
it a priestly secret, if not exactly common knowledge, that an angel, a
lion, an ox, and an eagle are symbols of the evangelists. During the
centuries that lacked an established system of schools and scarcely had
schools at all, even the most ignorant among Christ's followers had a
surprising knowledge of this kind of synonymy. A gridiron was the
metaphorical symbol of Laurentius, a key of Peter; a sword of Paul;
goose-feet designated a feminine statue as Queen Seba, and arrows in a
breast indicated Sebastian.

In short, Christianity has lived, and still lives, within the depths of
a synonymy that is so innocuous that one does not even reflect on its
existence.

The same psychological laws applied to the formation of the heathen
synonymy as to the formation of the Christian one. A single name cannot
possibly illustrate everything that the myths tell of the name's
bearer and, commonly, the meaning of the oldest name that a god bore is
unknown to his own worshippers and thus is an abstraction that ceases
to designate him by any of his qualities. I doubt that during the last
centuries of Norse heathendom many knew that the name Odin, Vodan,
meant wind, although everyone knew that Odin was the lord of the
heavens and the wind. But the qualities one attributed to him and the
adventures that were told of him gave not only skalds and singers, but
assumedly many people, reason to give him new designations which
recognizably designated these qualities or recognizably referred to
these mythic adventures. And for that reason, they did not burden the
memory, but on the contrary, they could have acted as mnemonic aids
based on the association of ideas, if such help had been necessary,
which it was not. Under the development and transformation of language,
it must naturally follow that many such names and epithets become
antiquated in their meaning, that their meanings become obscure; but
these antiquated names and epithets can never grow into such a mass
that they are preserved for remembrance, and this simply for the reason
that every such name or epithet, when it does not become fixed or
attain common usage, is relegated to oblivion by degrees.

Time, which creates new names and epithets, also thins out many of the
old ones, and thus names preserved from the Proto-Indo-European era are
few. Moreover, memory can retain a large number without trouble.
Mnemonic verses in which they became collected were composed, not for
necessity, but for pleasure, and it is not difficult for children to
learn names by the hundreds when they are gathered in rhyme and meter.
Fragments of such synonymic name-lists are found in the Poetic Edda.
Entire poems intended as nothing more than reinforcement to impart
names and synonyms in a comic manner are found there too, connected to
some adventure. To learn them may have been a pastime for children
around the hearth, as it is in our day for them to learn nonsense set
in rhyme and meter. However, in regard to a great number of the
synonyms, such learning was as unnecessary as it would be in our day to
learn mnemonic verses that impart the synonyms of God the Father or
Jesus.

For example, one who knew that Egil was the finest of all archers need
not be taught that Írvandil, i.e. "the one occupied with arrows,"
was an epithet for him when he is spoken of under this name in a
narrative retelling one of Egil's adventures. One who knew that
Ivaldi-Svigdir was an elf-king in Svithiod and Finland, famous as a
watchman by a fjord over the Elivogar, as a great drinker and
spear-champion need not be taught that the epithets Finn-king, Svigdir
(great-drinker), Vadill and Geirvandill (spear-champion) refer to him
when they appear in poems that describe his adventures.
The wealth of synonyms was thus neither a troublesome burden nor a
cause for confusion, since an epithet, once it had become fixed on a
certain god, was used as a rule, so long as this epithet was known and
associated with him only. The hymns of the Rigveda, as well as the
Germanic and the Greek do***ents attest to this. The exceptions to this
are few and have their explanation in an epithet's more general or
patronymic significance.

But an entirely different cir***stance ensues with synonyms when a
religion has died out, and its myths have been preserved only in
fragmentary pieces for posterity. Then, which names were synonyms
cannot be established without the most careful investigation of the
fragments. Egil can appear in one fragment by that name; in another, he
may appear under his byname Írvandil, in a third under his byname
Ebur. And, as long as the fragments are not subjected to the strictest
application of the Real method described above, it is easy to assume
that Egil, Írvandil, and Ebur are three different persons. One might
never have escaped this difficulty that the synonymy produces under
such conditions, had not both Eddas fortunately given abundant and
emphatic evidence of the synonymy's existence in the field of
Germanic mythology and also furnished many mythic names of a synonymous
nature. Had this not happened, one might be convinced that the
nature-mythologists, who prefer to see the myths as isolated tales,
because they then are easier to treat as purely meteorological symbols,
could easily deny the existence of synonymy, and that linguists, for
whom every nomen (name) is a specific numen (divinity), would give the
nature-mythologists their hearty support on this point. As it is now,
they must limit themselves to the assertion that the Eddas have
gathered and preserved all of the synonyms that actually existed. But
for everyone who has critically reviewed the contents of the Eddas,
this assertion is too absurd for discussion.

Translation (c) 2006 William P. Reaves
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