rudy

Here's the official beginning of the Thomas Paine thread!

I would like to know more about Tom Paine and Quakerism.

rudy

engineer

At the end of the second edition of Thomas Paine's
_Common Sense_ he added an address "To the Representatives
of the Religious Society of the People called Quakers"

I highly recommend reading _Common Sense_ first so as to
understand the context in which the letter was written.
Read by itself, it may give the wrong impression.
_Common Sense_ is available online at these web sites:

http://www.patriotresource.com/do***ents/csense/quakers.html
http://www.bartleby.com/133/

after reading _Common Sense_, you might want to read

_To the honorable the Council of Safety of the State
of Pennsylvania_, where Thomas Paine speaks about Quakers
at great length. It's at

http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis04.htm

For those who reject my advice about reading the context
first, here is the text of the address appended to
_Common Sense_:

To the Representatives of the Religious Society of the
People called Quakers, or to so many of them as were
concerned in publishing the late piece, entitled "THE
ANCIENT TESTIMONY and PRlNCIPLES of the People called
QUAKERS renewed, with Respect to the KING and
GOVERNMENT, and touching the COMMOTIONS now prevailing
in these and other parts of AMERICA addressed to the
PEOPLE IN GENERAL."

The Writer of this, is one of those few, who never
dishonours religion either by ridiculing, or cavilling
at any denomination whatsoever. To God, and not to man,
are all men accountable on the score of religion.
Wherefore, this epistle is not so properly addressed to
you as a religious, but as a political body, dabbling
in matters, which the professed Quietude of your
Principles instruct you not to meddle with. As you
have, without a proper authority for so doing, put
yourselves in the place of the whole body of the
Quakers, so, the writer of this, in order to be on an
equal rank with yourselves, is under the necessity, of
putting himself in the place of all those, who, approve
the very writings and principles, against which, your
testimony is directed: And he hath chosen this singular
situation, in order, that you might discover in him
that presumption of character which you cannot see in
yourselves. For neither he nor you can have any claim
or title to POLITICAL REPRESENTATION.

When men have departed from the right way, it is no
wonder that they stumble and fall. And it is evident
from the manner in which ye have managed your
testimony, that politics, (as a religious body of men)
is not your proper Walk; for however well adapted it
might appear to you, it is, nevertheless, a jumble of
good and bad put unwisely together, and the conclusion
drawn therefrom, both unnatural and unjust.

The two first pages, (and the whole doth not make four)
we give you credit for, and expect the same civility
from you, because the love and desire of peace is not
confined to Quakerism, it is the natural, as well the
religious wish of all denominations of men. And on this
ground, as men labouring to establish an Independant
Constitution of our own, do we exceed all others in our
hope, end, and aim. OUR PLAN IS PEACE FOR EVER. We are
tired of contention with Britain, and can see no real
end to it but in a final separation. We act
consistently, because for the sake of introducing an
endless and uninterrupted peace, do we bear the evils
and burthens of the present day. We are endeavoring,
and will steadily continue to endeavour, to separate
and dissolve a connexion which hath already filled our
land with blood; and which, while the name of it
remains, will he the fatal cause of future mischiefs to
both countries.

We fight neither for revenge nor conquest; neither from
pride nor passion; we are not insulting the world with
our fleets and armies, nor ravaging the globe for
plunder. Beneath the shade of our own vines are we
attacked; in our own houses, and on our own lands, is
the violence committed against us. We view our enemies
in the character of Highwaymen and Housebreakers, and
having no defence for ourselves in the civil law, are
obliged to punish them by the military one, and apply
the sword, in the very case, where you have before now,
applied the halter-- Perhaps we feel for the ruined and
insulted sufferers in all and every part of the
continent, with a degree of tenderness which hath not
yet made its way into some of your bosoms. But be ye
sure that ye mistake not the cause and ground of your
Testimony. Call not coldness of soul, religion; nor put
the BIGOT in the place of the CHRISTIAN.

O ye partial ministers of your own acknowledged
principles. If the bearing arms be sinful, the first
going to war must be more so, by all the difference
between wilful attack, and unavoidable defence.
Wherefore, if ye really preach from conscience, and
mean not to make a political hobbyhorse of your
religion convince the world thereof, by proclaiming
your doctrine to our enemies, FOR THEY LIKEWISE BEAR
_ARMS_. Give us proof of your sincerity by publishing
it at St. James's, to the commanders in chief at
Boston, to the Admirals and Captains who are
piratically ravaging our coasts, and to all the
murdering miscreants who are acting in authority under
HIM whom ye profess to serve. Had ye the honest soul of
BARCLAY ye would preach repentance to YOUR king; Ye
would tell the Royal Wretch his sins, and warn him of
eternal ruin. ["Thou hast tasted of prosperity and
adversity; thou knowest what it is to be banished thy
native country, to be over-ruled as well as to rule,
and set upon the throne; and being oppressed thou hast
reason to know how hateful the oppressor is both to God
and man: If after all these warnings and
adverti*****ts, thou dost not turn unto the Lord with
all thy heart, but forget him who remembered thee in
thy distress, and give up thyself to fallow lust and
vanity, surely great will be thy condemnation.--
Against which snare, as well as the temptation of those
who may or do feed thee, and prompt thee to evil, the
most excellent and prevalent remedy will be, to apply
thyself to that light of Christ which shineth in thy
conscience, and which neither can, nor will flatter
thee, nor suffer thee to be at ease in thy
sins."--Barclay's address to Charles II.] Ye would not
spend your partial invectives against the injured and
the insulted only, but, like faithful ministers, would
cry aloud and SPARE NONE. Say not that ye are
persecuted, neither endeavour to make us the authors of
that reproach, which, ye are bringing upon yourselves;
for we testify unto all men, that we do not complain
against you because ye are Quakers, but because ye
pretend to be and are NOT Quakers.

Alas! it seems by the particular tendency of some part
of your testimony, and other parts of your conduct, as
if, all sin was reduced to, and comprehended in, THE
ACT OF BEARING ARMS, and that by the people only. Ye
appear to us, to have mistaken party for conscience;
because, the general tenor of your actions wants
uniformity--And it is exceedingly difficult to us to
give credit to many of your pretended scruples;
because, we see them made by the same men, who, in the
very instant that they are exclaiming against the
mammon of this world, are nevertheless, hunting after
it with a step as steady as Time, and an appetite as
keen as Death.

The quotation which ye have made from Proverbs, in the
third page of your testimony, that, "when a man's ways
please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at
peace with him"; is very unwisely chosen on your part;
because, it amounts to a proof, that the king's ways
(whom ye are desirous of supporting) do NOT please the
Lord, otherwise, his reign would be in peace.

I now proceed to the latter part of your testimony, and
that, for which all the foregoing seems only an
introduction viz.

"It hath ever been our judgment and principle, since we
were called to profess the light of Christ Jesus,
manifested in our consciences unto this day, that the
setting up and putting down kings and governments, is
God's peculiar prerogative; for causes best known to
himself: And that it is not our business to have any
hand or contrivance therein; nor to be busy bodies
above our station, much less to plot and contrive the
ruin, or overturn of any of them, but to pray for the
king, and safety of our nation. and good of all men -
That we may live a peaceable and quiet life, in all
godliness and honesty; UNDER THE GOVERNMENT WHICH GOD
IS PLEASED TO SET OVER US" - If these are REALLY your
principles why do ye not abide by them? Why do ye not
leave that, which ye call God's Work, to be managed by
himself? These very principles instruct you to wait
with patience and humility, for the event of all public
measures, and to receive that event as the divine will
towards you. Wherefore, what occasion is there for your
POLITICAL TESTIMONY if you fully believe what it
contains? And the very publishing it proves, that
either, ye do not believe what ye profess, or have not
virtue enough to practise what ye believe.

The principles of Quakerism have a direct tendency to
make a man the quiet and inoffensive subject of any,
and every government WHICH IS SET OVER HIM. And if the
setting up and putting down of kings and governments is
God's peculiar prerogative, he most certainly will not
be robbed thereof by us: wherefore, the principle
itself leads you to approve of every thing, which ever
happened, or may happen to kings as being his work.
OLIVER CROMWELL thanks you. CHARLES, then, died not by
the hands of man; and should the present Proud Imitator
of him, come to the same untimely end, the writers and
publishers of the Testimony, are bound, by the doctrine
it contains, to applaud the fact. Kings are not taken
away by miracles, neither are changes in governments
brought about by any other means than such as are
common and human; and such as we are now using. Even
the dispersion of the Jews, though foretold by our
Saviour, was effected by arms. Wherefore, as ye refuse
to be the means on one side, ye ought not to be
meddlers on the other; but to wait the issue in
silence; and unless ye can produce divine authority, to
prove, that the Almighty who hath created and placed
this new world, at the greatest distance it could
possibly stand, east and west, from every part of the
old, doth, nevertheless, disapprove of its being
independent of the corrupt and abandoned court of
Britain, unless I say, ye can shew this, how can ye on
the ground of your principles, justify the exciting and
stirring up the people "firmly to unite in the
abhorrence of all such writings, and measures, as
evidence a desire and design to break off the happy
connexion we have hitherto enjoyed, with the kingdom of
Great-Britain, and our just and necessary subordination
to the king, and those who are lawfully placed in
authority under him." What a slap of the face is here!
the men, who in the very paragraph before, have quietly
and passively resigned up the ordering, altering, and
disposal of kings and governments, into the hands of
God, are now, recalling their principles, and putting
in for a share of the business. Is it possible, that
the conclusion, which is here justly quoted, can any
ways follow from the doctrine laid down? The
inconsistency is too glaring not to be seen; the
absurdity too great not to be laughed at; and such as
could only have been made by those, whose
understandings were darkened by the narrow and crabby
spirit of a despairing political party; for ye are not
to be considered as the whole body of the Quakers but
only as a factional and fractional part thereof.

Here ends the examination of your testimony; (which I
call upon no man to abhor, as ye have done, but only to
read and judge of fairly to which I subjoin the
following remark; "That the setting up and putting down
of kings," most certainly mean, the making him a king,
who is yet not so, and the making him no king who is
already one. And pray what hath this to do in the
present case? We neither mean to set up nor to pull
down, neither to make nor to unmake, but to have
nothing to do with them. Wherefore, your testimony in
whatever light it is viewed serves only to dishonor
your judgement, and for many other reasons had better
have been let alone than published.

First, Because it tends to the decrease and reproach of
all religion whatever, and is of the utmost danger to
society to make it a party in political disputes.

Secondly, Because it exhibits a body of men, numbers of
whom disavow the publishing political testimonies, as
being concerned therein and approvers thereof.

Thirdly, because it hath a tendency to undo that
continental harmony and friendship which yourselves by
your late liberal and charitable donations hath lent a
hand to establish; and the preservation of which, is of
the utmost consequence to us all.

And here without anger or resentment I bid you
farewell. Sincerely wishing, that as men and
christians, ye may always fully and uninterruptedly
enjoy every civil and religious right; and be, in your
turn, the means of securing it to others; but that the
example which ye have unwisely set, of mingling
religion with politics, MAY BE DISAVOWED AND REPROBATED
BY EVERY INHABITANT OF AMERICA.

FINIS.

-Thomas Paine

engineer

This is a part of Thomas Paine's _The American Crisis_,
which may be found at these web pages.

http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis01.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis02.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis03.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis04.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis05.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis06.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis07.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis08.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis09.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis10.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis11.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis12.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis13.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis14.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis15.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis16.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis17.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis18.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis19.htm
http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis.txt

Again. I advise reading the work from the start for context
(especially http://www.constitution.org/tp/amercrisis03.htm )
rather than starting with the part where he adresses Quakers.
That being said, here is the part where he adresses Quakers:


To the honorable the Council of Safety of the State of
Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, April 19, 1777
Thomas Paine

At a meeting of a reputable number of the inhabitants
of the city of Philadelphia, impressed with a proper
sense of the justice of the cause which this continent
is engaged in, and animated with a generous fervor for
supporting the same, it was resolved, that the
following be laid before the board of safety:

"We profess liberality of sentiment to all men; with
this distinction only, that those who do not deserve it
would become wise and seek to deserve it. We hold the
pure doctrines of universal liberty of conscience, and
conceive it our duty to endeavor to secure that sacred
right to others, as well as to defend it for ourselves;
for we undertake not to judge of the religious
rectitude of tenets, but leave the whole matter to Him
who made us.

"We persecute no man, neither will we abet in the
persecution of any man for religion's sake; our common
relation to others being that of fellow-citizens and
fellow-subjects of one single community; and in this
line of connection we hold out the right hand of
fellowship to all men. But we should conceive ourselves
to be unworthy members of the free and independent
States of America, were we unconcernedly to see or to
suffer any treasonable wound, public or private,
directly or indirectly, to be given against the peace
and safety of the same. We inquire not into the rank of
the offenders, nor into their religious persuasion; we
have no business with either, our part being only to
find them out and exhibit them to justice.

"A printed paper, dated the 20th of November, and
signed 'John Pemberton,' whom we suppose to be an
inhabitant of this city, has lately been dispersed
abroad, a copy of which accompanies this. Had the
framers and publishers of that paper conceived it their
duty to exhort the youth and others of their society,
to a patient submission under the present trying
visitations, and humbly to wait the event of heaven
towards them, they had therein shown a Christian
temper, and we had been silent; but the anger and
political virulence with which their instructions are
given, and the abuse with which they stigmatize all
ranks of men not thinking like themselves, leave no
doubt on our minds from what spirit their publication
proceeded: and it is disgraceful to the pure cause of
truth, that men can dally with words of the most sacred\0
import, and play them off as mechanically as if
religion consisted only in contrivance. We know of no
instance in which the Quakers have been compelled to
bear arms, or to do any thing which might strain their
conscience; wherefore their advice, 'to withstand and
refuse to submit to the arbitrary instructions and
ordinances of men,' appear to us a false alarm, and
could only be treasonably calculated to gain favor with
our enemies, when they are seemingly on the brink of
invading this State, or, what is still worse, to weaken
the hands of our defence, that their entrance into this
city might be made practicable and easy.

"We disclaim all tumult and disorder in the punishment
of offenders; and wish to be governed, not by temper
but by reason, in the manner of treating them. We are
sensible that our cause has suffered by the two
following errors: first, by ill-judged lenity to
traitorous persons in some cases; and, secondly, by
only a passionate treatment of them in others. For the
future we disown both, and wish to be steady in our
proceedings, and serious in our punishments.

"Every State in America has, by the repeated voice of
its inhabitants, directed and authorized the
Continental Congress to publish a formal Declaration of
Independence of, and separation from, the oppressive
king and Parliament of Great Britain; and we look on
every man as an enemy, who does not in some line or
other, give his assistance towards supporting the same;
at the same time we consider the offence to be
heightened to a degree of unpardonable guilt, when such
persons, under the show of religion, endeavor, either
by writing, speaking, or otherwise, to subvert,
overturn, or bring reproach upon the independence of
this continent as declared by Congress.

"The publishers of the paper signed 'John Pemberton,'
have called in a loud manner to their friends and
connections, 'to withstand or refuse' obedience to
whatever 'instructions or ordinances' may be published,
not warranted by (what they call) 'that happy
Constitution under which they and others long enjoyed
tranquillity and peace.' If this be not treason, we
know not what may properly be called by that name.

"To us it is a matter of surprise and astonishment,
that men with the word 'peace, peace,' continually on
their lips, should be so fond of living under and
supporting a government, and at the same time calling
it 'happy,' which is never better pleased than when a
war- that has filled India with carnage and famine,
Africa with slavery, and tampered with Indians and
negroes to cut the throats of the freemen of America.
We conceive it a disgrace to this State, to harbor or
wink at such palpable hypocrisy. But as we seek not to
hurt the hair of any man's head, when we can make
ourselves safe without, we wish such persons to restore
peace to themselves and us, by removing themselves to
some part of the king of Great Britain's dominions, as
by that means they may live unmolested by us and we by
them; for our fixed opinion is, that those who do not
deserve a place among us, ought not to have one.

"We conclude with requesting the Council of Safety to
take into consideration the paper signed 'John
Pemberton,' and if it shall appear to them to be of a
dangerous tendency, or of a treasonable nature, that
they would commit the signer, together with such other
persons as they can discover were concerned therein,
into custody, until such time as some mode of trial
shall ascertain the full degree of their guilt and
punishment; in the doing of which, we wish their
judges, whoever they may be, to disregard the man, his
connections, interest, riches, poverty, or principles
of religion, and to attend to the nature of his offence
only."

The most cavilling sectarian cannot accuse the
foregoing with containing the least ingredient of
persecution. The free spirit on which the American
cause is founded, disdains to mix with such an
impurity, and leaves it as rubbish fit only for narrow
and suspicious minds to grovel in. Suspicion and
persecution are weeds of the same dunghill, and
flourish together. Had the Quakers minded their
religion and their business, they might have lived
through this dispute in enviable ease, and none would
have molested them. The common phrase with these people
is, 'Our principles are peace.' To which may be
replied, and your practices are the reverse; for never
did the conduct of men oppose their own doctrine more
notoriously than the present race of the Quakers. They
have artfully changed themselves into a different sort
of people to what they used to be, and yet have the
address to persuade each other that they are not
altered; like antiquated virgins, they see not the
havoc deformity has made upon them, but pleasantly
mistaking wrinkles for dimples, conceive themselves yet
lovely and wonder at the stupid world for not admiring
them.

Did no injury arise to the public by this apostacy of
the Quakers from themselves, the public would have
nothing to do with it; but as both the design and
consequences are pointed against a cause in which the
whole community are interested, it is therefore no
longer a subject confined to the cognizance of the
meeting only, but comes, as a matter of criminality,
before the authority either of the particular State in
which it is acted, or of the continent against which it
operates. Every attempt, now, to support the authority
of the king and Parliament of Great Britain over
America, is treason against every State; therefore it
is impossible that any one can pardon or screen from
punishment an offender against all.

But to proceed: while the infatuated Tories of this and
other States were last spring talking of commissioners,
accommodation, making the matter up, and the Lord knows
what stuff and nonsense, their good king and ministry
were glutting themselves with the revenge of reducing
America to unconditional submission, and solacing each
other with the certainty of conquering it in one
campaign. The following quotations are from the
parliamentary register of the debate's of the House of
Lords, March 5th, 1776:

"The Americans," says Lord Talbot,[1] "have been
obstinate, undutiful, and ungovernable from the very
beginning, from their first early and infant
settlements; and I am every day more and more convinced
that this people never will be brought back to their
duty, and the subordinate relation they stand in to
this country, till reduced to unconditional, effectual
submission; no concession on our part, no lenity, no
endurance, will have any other effect but that of
increasing their insolence."Steward of the king's
household.

"The struggle," says Lord Townsend,[2] "is now a
struggle for power; the die is cast, and the only point
which now remains to be determined is, in what manner
the war can be most effectually prosecuted and speedily
finished, in order to procure that unconditional
submission, which has been so ably stated by the noble
Earl with the white staff" (meaning Lord Talbot "and
I have no reason to doubt that the measures now
pursuing will put an end to the war in the course of a
single campaign. Should it linger longer, we shall then
have reason to expect that some foreign power will
interfere, and take advantage of our domestic troubles
and civil distractions." of Ireland.

Lord Littleton. "My sentiments are pretty well known. I
shall only observe now that lenient measures have had
no other effect than to produce insult after insult;
that the more we conceded, the higher America rose in
her demands, and the more insolent she has grown. It is
for this reason that I am now for the most effective
and decisive measures; and am of opinion that no
alternative is left us, but to relinquish America for
ever, or finally determine to compel her to acknowledge
the legislative authority of this country; and it is
the principle of an unconditional submission I would be
for maintaining."

Can words be more expressive than these? Surely the
Tories will believe the Tory lords! The truth is, they
do believe them and know as fully as any Whig on the
continent knows, that the king and ministry never had
the least design of an accommodation with America, but
an absolute, unconditional conquest. And the part which
the Tories were to act, was, by downright lying, to
endeavor to put the continent off its guard, and to
divide and sow discontent in the minds of such Whigs as
they might gain an influence over. In short, to keep up
a distraction here, that the force sent from England
might be able to conquer in "one campaign." They and
the ministry were, by a different game, playing into
each other's hands. The cry of the Tories in England
was, "No reconciliation, no accommodation," in order to
obtain the greater military force; while those in
America were crying nothing but "reconciliation and
accommodation," that the force sent might conquer with
the less resistance.

But this "single campaign" is over, and America not
conquered. The whole work is yet to do, and the force
much less to do it with. Their condition is both
despicable and deplorable: out of cash- out of heart,
and out of hope. A country furnished with arms and
ammunition as America now is, with three millions of
inhabitants, and three thousand miles distant from the
nearest enemy that can approach her, is able to look
and laugh them in the face.

Howe appears to have two objects in view, either to go
up the North River, or come to Philadelphia.

By going up the North River, he secures a retreat for
his army through Canada, but the ships must return if
they return at all, the same way they went; as our armywould be in the rear, the safety of their passage down
is a doubtful matter. By such a motion he shuts himself
from all supplies from Europe, but through Canada, and
exposes his army and navy to the danger of perishing.
The idea of his cutting off the communication between
the eastern and southern states, by means of the North
River, is merely visionary. He cannot do it by his
shipping; because no ship can lay long at anchor in any
river within reach of the shore; a single gun would
drive a first rate from such a station. This was fully
proved last October at Forts Washington and Lee, where
one gun only, on each side of the river, obliged two
frigates to cut and be towed off in an hour's time.
Neither can he cut it off by his army; because the
several posts they must occupy would divide them almost
to nothing, and expose them to be picked up by ours
like pebbles on a river's bank; but admitting that he
could, where is the injury? Because, while his whole
force is cantoned out, as sentries over the water, they
will be very innocently employed, and the moment they
march into the country the communication opens.

The most probable object is Philadelphia, and the
reasons are many. Howe's business is to conquer it, and
in proportion as he finds himself unable to the task,
he will employ his strength to distress women and weak
minds, in order to accomplish through their fears what
he cannot accomplish by his own force. His coming or
attempting to come to Philadelphia is a cir***stance
that proves his weakness: for no general that felt
himself able to take the field and attack his
antagonist would think of bringing his army into a city
in the summer time; and this mere shifting the scene
from place to place, without effecting any thing, has
feebleness and cowardice on the face of it, and holds
him up in a contemptible light to all who can reason
justly and firmly. By several informations from New
York, it appears that their army in general, both
officers and men, have given up the expectation of
conquering America; their eye now is fixed upon the
spoil. They suppose Philadelphia to be rich with
stores, and as they think to get more by robbing a town
than by attacking an army, their movement towards this
city is probable. We are not now contending against an
army of soldiers, but against a band of thieves, who
had rather plunder than fight, and have no other hope
of conquest than by cruelty.

They expect to get a mighty booty, and strike another
general panic, by making a sudden movement and getting
possession of this city; but unless they can march out
as well as in, or get the entire command of the river,
to remove off their plunder, they may probably be
stopped with the stolen goods upon them. They have
never yet succeeded wherever they have been opposed,
but at Fort Washington. At Charleston their defeat was
effectual. At Ticonderoga they ran away. In every
skirmish at Kingsbridge and the White Plains they were
obliged to retreat, and the instant that our arms were
turned upon them in the Jerseys, they turned likewise,
and those that turned not were taken.

The necessity of always fitting our internal police to
the cir***stances of the times we live in, is something
so strikingly obvious, that no sufficient objection can
be made against it. The safety of all societies depends
upon it; and where this point is not attended to, the
consequences will either be a general languor or a
tumult. The encouragement and protection of the good
subjects of any state, and the suppression and
punishment of bad ones, are the principal objects for
which all authority is instituted, and the line in
which it ought to operate. We have in this city a
strange variety of men and characters, and the
cir***stances of the times require that they should be
publicly known; it is not the number of Tories that
hurt us, so much as the not finding out who they are;
men must now take one side or the other, and abide by
the consequences: the Quakers, trusting to their
short-sighted sagacity, have, most unluckily for them,
made their declaration in their last Testimony, and we
ought now to take them at their word. They have
involuntarily read themselves out of the continental
meeting, and cannot hope to be restored to it again but
by payment and penitence. Men whose political
principles are founded on avarice, are beyond the reach
of reason, and the only cure of Toryism of this cast is
to tax it. A substantial good drawn from a real evil,
is of the same benefit to society, as if drawn from a
virtue; and where men have not public spirit to render
themselves serviceable, it ought to be the study of
government to draw the best use possible from their
vices. When the governing passion of any man, or set of
men, is once known, the method of managing them is
easy; for even misers, whom no public virtue can
impress, would become generous, could a heavy tax be
laid upon covetousness.

The Tories have endeavored to insure their property
with the enemy, by forfeiting their reputation with us;
from which may be justly inferred, that their governing
passion is avarice. Make them as much afraid of losing
on one side as on the other, and you stagger their
Toryism; make them more so, and you reclaim them; for
their principle is to worship the power which they are
most afraid of.

This method of considering men and things together,
opens into a large field for speculation, and affords
me an opportunity of offering some observations on the
state of our currency, so as to make the support of it
go hand in hand with the suppression of disaffection
and the encouragement of public spirit.

The thing which first presents itself in inspecting the
state of the currency, is, that we have too much of it,
and that there is a necessity of reducing the quantity,
in order to increase the value. Men are daily growing
poor by the very means that they take to get rich; for
in the same proportion that the prices of all goods on
hand are raised, the value of all money laid by is
reduced. A simple case will make this clear; let a man
have 100 L. in cash, and as many goods on hand as will
to-day sell for 20 L.; but not content with the present
market price, he raises them to 40 L. and by so doing
obliges others, in their own defence, to raise cent.
per cent. likewise; in this case it is evident that his
hundred pounds laid by, is reduced fifty pounds in
value; whereas, had the market lowered cent. per cent.,
his goods would have sold but for ten, but his hundred
pounds would have risen in value to two hundred;
because it would then purchase as many goods again, or
support his family as long again as before. And,
strange as it may seem, he is one hundred and fifty
pounds the poorer for raising his goods, to what he
would have been had he lowered them; because the forty
pounds which his goods sold for, is, by the general
raise of the market cent. per cent., rendered of no
more value than the ten pounds would be had the market
fallen in the same proportion; and, consequently, the
whole difference of gain or loss is on the difference
in value of the hundred pounds laid by, viz. from fifty
to two hundred. This rage for raising goods is for
several reasons much more the fault of the Tories than
the Whigs; and yet the Tories (to their shame and
confusion ought they to be told of it) are by far the
most noisy and discontented. The greatest part of the
Whigs, by being now either in the army or employed in
some public service, are buyers only and not sellers,
and as this evil has its origin in trade, it cannot be
charged on those who are out of it.

But the grievance has now become too general to be
remedied by partial methods, and the only effectual
cure is to reduce the quantity of money: with half the
quantity we should be richer than we are now, because
the value of it would be doubled, and consequently our
attachment to it increased; for it is not the number of
dollars that a man has, but how far they will go, that
makes him either rich or poor.

These two points being admitted, viz. that the quantity
of money is too great, and that the prices of goods can
only be effectually reduced by, reducing the quantity
of the money, the next point to be considered is, the
method how to reduce it.

The cir***stances of the times, as before observed,
require that the public characters of all men should
now be fully understood, and the only general method of
ascertaining it is by an oath or affirmation,
renouncing all allegiance to the king of Great Britain,
and to support the independence of the United States,
as declared by Congress. Let, at the same time, a tax
of ten, fif****, or twenty per cent. per annum, to be
collected quarterly, be levied on all property. These
alternatives, by being perfectly voluntary, will take
in all sorts of people. Here is the test; here is the
tax. He who takes the former, conscientiously proves
his affection to the cause, and binds himself to pay
his quota by the best services in his power, and is
thereby justly exempt from the latter; and those who
choose the latter, pay their quota in money, to be
excused from the former, or rather, it is the price
paid to us for their supposed, though mistaken,
insurance with the enemy.

But this is only a part of the advantage which would
arise by knowing the different characters of men. The
Whigs stake everything on the issue of their arms,
while the Tories, by their disaffection, are sapping
and undermining their strength; and, of consequence,
the property of the Whigs is the more exposed thereby;
and whatever injury their estates may sustain by the
movements of the enemy, must either be borne by
themselves, who have done everything which has yet been
done, or by the Tories, who have not only done nothing,
but have, by their disaffection, invited the enemy on.

In the present crisis we ought to know, square by
square and house by house, who are in real allegiance
with the United Independent States, and who are not.
Let but the line be made clear and distinct, and all
men will then know what they are to trust to. It would
not only be good policy but strict justice, to raise
fifty or one hundred thousand pounds, or more, if it is
necessary, out of the estates and property of the king
of England's votaries, resident in Philadelphia, to be
distributed, as a reward to those inhabitants of the
city and State, who should turn out and repulse the
enemy, should they attempt to march this way; and
likewise, to bind the property of all such persons to
make good the damages which that of the Whigs might
sustain. In the undistinguishable mode of conducting a
war, we frequently make reprisals at sea, on the
vessels of persons in England, who are friends to our
cause compared with the resident Tories among us.

In every former publication of mine, from Common Sense
down to the last Crisis, I have generally gone on the
charitable supposition, that the Tories were rather a
mistaken than a criminal people, and have applied
argument after argument, with all the candor and temper
which I was capable of, in order to set every part of
the case clearly and fairly before them, and if
possible to reclaim them from ruin to reason. I have
done my duty by them and have now done with that
doctrine, taking it for granted, that those who yet
hold their disaffection are either a set of avaricious
miscreants, who would sacrifice the continent to save
themselves, or a banditti of hungry traitors, who are
hoping for a division of the spoil. To which may be
added, a list of crown or proprietary dependants, who,
rather than go without a portion of power, would be
content to share it with the devil. Of such men there
is no hope; and their obedience will only be according
to the danger set before them, and the power that is
exercised over them.

A time will shortly arrive, in which, by ascertaining
the characters of persons now, we shall be guarded
against their mischiefs then; for in proportion as the
enemy despair of conquest, they will be trying the arts
of seduction and the force of fear by all the mischiefs
which they can inflict. But in war we may be certain of
these two things, viz. that cruelty in an enemy, and
motions made with more than usual parade, are always
signs of weakness. He that can conquer, finds his mind
too free and pleasant to be brutish; and he that
intends to conquer, never makes too much show of his
strength.

We now know the enemy we have to do with. While drunk
with the certainty of victory, they disdained to be
civil; and in proportion as disappointment makes them
sober, and their apprehensions of an European war alarm
them, they will become cringing and artful; honest they
cannot be. But our answer to them, in either condition
they may be in, is short and full- "As free and
independent States we are willing to make peace with
you to-morrow, but we neither can hear nor reply in any
other character."

If Britain cannot conquer us, it proves that she is
neither able to govern nor protect us, and our
particular situation now is such, that any connection
with her would be unwisely exchanging a half-defeated
enemy for two powerful ones. Europe, by every
appearance, is now on the eve, nay, on the morning
twilight of a war, and any alliance with George the
Third brings France and Spain upon our backs; a
separation from him attaches them to our side;
therefore, the only road to peace, honor and commerce
is Independence.

Written this fourth year of the union, which God
preserve.

Philadelphia, April 19, 1777.


Notes:

1. Steward of the king's household.

2. Formerly General Townsend, at Quebec, and late
lord-lieutenant.

smoky

Thomas Paine in addition to authoring Common Sense and numerous other
pamphlets on a variety of subjects wrote several treatises pertaining
to matters of theology.

Paine a Quaker by birth was almost unanimously celebrated as a hero in
America for his contributions to the Revolutionary cause. Upon
completing what he might well have considered his work here in the
U.S. he returned to Europe and set about encouraging what was the
burgeoning revolution taking place in France.

Rather than me restating an in-depth account of Paine's Life that is
available to anyone with a computer + access to the Internet. I will
for the sake of brevity move to the substance of Paine's relationship
to Quakers that I find most troubling.

While incarnated in Europe, Paine authored the treatise "Age of
Reason" wherein he asserted among other things.

"Every national church or religion has established itself by
pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain
individuals ……..as if the way to God was not open to every man alike"

"I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond
this life.

I believe the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties
consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our
fellow-creatures happy.

But, lest it should be supposed that I believe many other things in
addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the
things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them."

Now Paine clearly explored issues beyond what I have quoted. And my
purpose is not to debate Paine's thought. So for those unfamiliar with
this essay and curious I would recommend a personal examination of his
words for themselves.

But having said this I believe Age of Reason provides a "brilliant
insight" (notice my reference to light) that recognizes the unity of
the whole. At the foundation of the Liberal Hicksite Quaker Tradition
there exists an ****ogous rejection of professional clergy, replete
with creeds, dogma and liturgy that I find eloquently and
unambiguously articulated in Paine's words.

In doing research on the question of intractable conflicts, that so
often involve groups owing an allegiance to a subordinate whole i.e.
(religious faiths replete with creeds, dogma and liturgy) I recently
ran across a commentary that pertained to the 1827 schism that split
the Quaker community. The author provided an account where Hicks, who
was visiting a meeting, was seen throwing a bible into the trash. The
"weighty Quakers" in attendance observing what Hicks had done
protested the sacrilege. Hicks' in response said "If you can't find
the text written here (pointing to his heart) you will never find it
on sheets of paper pulp covered with printer's ink."

What Paine and Hicks later reiterated was an appreciation that "Ones
own mind is ones own church" or to put it another way "each person has
the capacity to know directly the will of God; requiring neither a
specific liturgy nor the interpretation of an intermediary" and that
once you reject the singularity "I believe in one God, and no more"
and admit a second possibility through the adoption of creeds, dogma
and liturgy, you become rationally obliged to concede the potential
there is a third a fourth or a thousandth.

The aspect of Paine's life that I find most disquieting is the
treatment he received from Quakers for speaking his mind regarding
(what seems a basic truth). As death grew close Paine asked his
neighbor and close friend Willet Hicks (who was the cousin of Elias
Hicks) to arrange his burial in the local Quaker cemetery. His request
was denied.

When one considers the debates that eventually culminated in the 1827
Quaker schism, one can clearly appreciate the utter vilification Paine
enjoyed among Orthodox Christian Quakers.

Consider the following segment taken from a letter to Elias Hicks from
the "weighty" Quaker, Anna Braithwaite on the Nature of his Doctrines.

"We shall now notice the comparatively modern work of that
arch-infidel Thomas Paine, called "The Age of Reason," many of the
sentiments of which, are so exactly similar to those of E.H. as almost
to induce us to suspect plagiarism. - Speaking of our blessed Saviour
he says - "They (the Christian mythologists) represent this virtuous
and amiable man, Jesus Christ, to be at once both God and man,
celestially begotten, on purpose to be sacrificed" - he declares that
he was a Jew by birth and profession, and was the Son of God in like
manner that every other person is, for the Creator is the father of
all" - that "he probably worked at his father's trade, which was that
of a carpenter; that it does not appear that he had any school
learning, and the probability is that he could not write." - He denies
the miraculous conception, and ranks the divinity of Jesus Christ with
the deification of the heathen gods.
Of the doctrine of Christian redemption he speaks in terms of great
contempt - he says, "The probability is that the whole theory or
doctrine of what is called redemption (which is said to have been
accomplished by one person in the room of another) was originally
fabricated, on purpose to bring forward and build all those secondary
and pecuniary redemptions upon, and the passages in the books upon
which the idea or theory of redemption is built have been fabricated
and manufactured for that purpose" - "moral justice cannot take the
innocent for the guilty, even if the innocent would offer itself" -
"the doctrine of atonement is fabulous, man stands in the same
relative condition with his Maker, he ever did since man existed, and
it is his greatest consolation to think so" = "the doctrine is an
outrage offered to the moral justice of God, by supposing him to make
the innocent suffer for the guilty." - "It is only by the exercise of
reason that man can discover God." And the doctrines of the fall of
Adam - the Divinity of Christ, and his great sacrifice, he declares
are all irreconcilable to the divine gift of reason that God has given
to man.
Religion he says, cannot have connexion with mystery - it is free from
every thing of mystery and unen***bered with any thing mysterious -
mystery, is the appendage of fabulous not true religion."
Of our believing facts adduced upon the authority of revelation, he
says, "When it is revealed to me I will believe it to be revelation,
but it is not and cannot be in***bent upon me to believe it a
revelation before," &c.
Of the inspired account of the creation, he says, "It has all the
appearance of being a tradition which the Israelites had among them
before they came out of Egypt," &c.
To conclude the parallel, speaking of the first part of his work,
Paine says, "The opinions I have advanced in that work, are the effect
of the most clear and long established conviction, that the Bible and
Testament are impositions upon the world - that the fall of man - the
account of Jesus Christ being the Son of God - and of his dying to
appease the wrath of God - and of salvation by that strange means, are
all fabulous inventions, dishonourable to the wisdom and power of the
Almighty; and that the only true religion is Deism, by which I then
meant, and now mean, the belief of one God, and an imitation of his
moral character, or the practice of what are called moral virtues,"
&c. - That man must be destitute of common perception who does not at
the first glance see the coincidence of these sentiments with those of
E.H., and it is by no means difficult to tell where the latter may
have borrowed them without the pains or trouble of invention.
Paine, however, was a more consistent unbeliever - conscious of the
entire incongruousness of his opinions with the doctrines of the Holy
Scriptures, he did not attempt to screen himself under their sanction,
by wresting the plain sense and meaning of some parts to make out a
warrant for his sentiments, and wholly denying others which directly
contradicted him, but he commenced his career by boldly declaring that
the Bible was a tissue of falsehood and deceit - he had too much
honesty to make a profession of believing them when he knew that his
principles would give such profession the lie.
Bishop Watson has replied to the objections of Paine with much
learning and acuteness, and with great effect - his work is well
worthy of a serious perusal; but the most conclusive answer to Paine's
infidelity, as well as to that of all the writers whose names we have
mentioned, is a contemplation of their dying hours - He who has seen
the impenitent and hardened sinner trembling with agony of body and
horror of mind - destitute of hope - tormented with the very pains of
hell begun while on earth - and going out of time into eternity
blaspheming and contemning his God and Saviour, may form a correct
idea of the state of mind which these principles have produced in most
of their professors - and let those who are tampering with unbelief
take warning by the awful accompaniment of their death bed scenes, a
faithful account of which they may read in "Simpson's Plea for
Religion," and in "Pike's Consolations of Gospel Truth."
It has been the favourite axiom and first principle of all unbelievers
and free thinkers, that there are no mysteries in religion, and that
no man is bound to believe what he cannot comprehend - this is, in
fact, the very basis upon which infidelity in every age has been
erected.
We could adduce large quotations from authors of the same school with
Paine, shewing in the most conclusive manner that the dogmas of Elias
Hicks, so far from being further revelations of Christian doctrines,
are merely the stale objections to the religion of the Bible, which
have been so frequently routed and driven from the field, to the utter
shame and confusion of their promulgators."
FINIS.

Thomas Paine spent an entire lifetime "listening to the light" and was
shown scorn and contempt for his efforts by those with allegiances to
a subordinate whole.

I have no interest in debating the validity of Paine's remarks, but
would enjoy discussing the relationship that is clearly evident in the
subsequent remarks by Elias Hicks.

"If you think it's come down to Us versus Them, you've become one of
them."
Peace, Ken Worden

john seago

Could you perhaps expand upon the above, as I come to this from an
English viewpoint.
--
John Seago
Remove any $ or F for my address.

peter j weyman

The address to Quakers is addressed

To the Representatives of the Religious Society of the People called
Quakers, or to so many of them as were concerned in publishing the
late piece, entitled "THE ANCIENT TESTIMONY and PRlNCIPLES of the
People called QUAKERS renewed, with Respect to the KING and
GOVERNMENT, and touching the COMMOTIONS now prevailing in these and
other parts of AMERICA addressed to the PEOPLE IN GENERAL."

Is the piece that Paine is responding to online anywhere? I've found
references to a publication in Philadelphia, in the year 1776, but the
text is not present, just a citation.

Thanks,
Peter.

Peter J Weyman
Providence, RI

http://www.patriotresource.com/do***ents/csense/quakers.html

peter j weyman

Thanks, but this is a link to Paine's remarks *in response* to the
pamphlet to which I seek a link. I've read Paine's remarks before, but
have never seen the pamphlet itself, just references to it.

Thanks,
Peter.

Peter J Weyman
Providence, RI

Ooops.

smoky

Lets see if this helps you get a handle on where I'm coming from John

I'm not a theologian and I'm new to Quakerism (is that a word?) I grew
up on the north shore of Long Island, N.Y. and as a child attended
Matine**** meeting on several occasions with a neighbor FRIEND.

I first ran across a reference to "Age of Reason", years ago, in a
college religion course, and found what Paine had written thought
provoking, and I sort of filed the ideas away, along with other
minutia.

More Recently I began the study conflict resolution and was fascinated
by accounts of the 1827 schism that divided the Quaker community.
Through reading a 1992 doctoral dissertation by Verna Cavey I
discovered the factions that evolved within the Quaker dispute
identified each other as Orthodox and Hicksites. I theorized, and
later confirmed the Hicksites were so named because they were the
followers of Elias Hicks, whom curiously enough the town of Hicksville
on Long Island, not far from where I had grown up, was named. Being
inquisitive by nature I began to ****yze the sermons given by Elias
Hicks.

As I started reading various sermons attributed to Hicks I realized I
had encountered similar opinions expressed somewhere else. That's when
it occurred to me, Hicks was essentially rephrasing what Thomas Paine
had said only a few years before. The difference was, Hicks was
putting a Quaker spin on what Paine had previously said.

Two months ago I discovered there's a Quaker meeting less than 30
miles from where I now live, and I began attending hoping to find a
spiritual tradition that could end what has been a personal chronicle
of ceaseless wrestling with the exclusionary creeds, dogma and liturgy
I've found so pervasive in other religious traditions.

As Paine said "it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be
mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in
believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe
what he does not believe"

What I have found through my attendance at local Quaker meeting is
that most members are transplants to Quaker practice from other
faiths, and have seemingly engaged in something akin to Pascal's
Wager, possibly fearing they risk their salvation, they seem unable to
talk about the parallels between Paine and Hicks.

It might well be that to address such issues amounts to heterodoxy
amongst Quakers, if that's the case, I likely don't belong here
anyway.

Sincerely, Ken