jesse gomez

Why do Catholics worship Mary as though she were a goddess, when it is clear
in Scripture that she was not a supernatural being?

Catholics DO NOT worship Mary, the Mother of Christ--as though she were a
deity. Of all the misconceptions about Catholic belief and practice, this
one is the most absurd. Catholics are just as aware as Protestants that Mary
was a human creature, and therefore not entitled to the honors which are
reserved to God alone. What many non-Catholics mistake for adoration is a
very profound love and veneration, nothing more.

Mary is not adored, first because God forbids it, and secondly because the
Canon Law of the Catholic Church, which is based on Divine Law, forbids it.
Canon Law 1255 of the 1918 Codex strictly forbids adoration of anyone other
than the Holy Trinity.

However, Catholics do feel that Mary is entitled to a great measure of
exaltation because, in choosing her as the Mother of Redemption, God Himself
exalted her--exalted her more than any other human person before or since.

(Taken from: The Catholic Church has the Answer, pg 28, by Paul Whitcomb,
published by: http://www.TanBooks.com)


--
Jesse Gomez Jr
In Beautiful Norway

stanley f. nelson

Catholic Christians do not "worship" the Blessed Virgin Mary and never have.
To say or suggest that the "Catholic Church" does so is wrong. The Blessed
Virgin Mary, mother of our Lord Jesus the Messiah, should be venerated ("all
generations shall call me blessed."), and she can be prayed to as a powerful
intercessor with God the Father (as Jesus is our highest Intercessor and all
Saints and Angels can act as intercessors). God the Father alone is
worshipped. To say or suggest anything else is blasphemy.

Stanley F. Nelson
Dallas.

stopit588

Your responding and encourging a troll he has done this before.

ccc31807

This might be an ignorant question, but how can you pray to someone
who is not in heaven?

Mary, the Mother of Jesus, will undoubtedly be in heaven when the dead
are raised, but the Bible clearly reveals that she, and all others who
have died in Christ, are "asleep" (that is, dead). I can't imagine a
more futile act that praying to a dead person.

CC

brachypodium

Very easily indeed. Demons take calls 24/7 and are always ready to give advice.

Peter

todd r jerabek

Hmmm, what does the Bible have to say about anybody, even Mary, being a
mediator between God and man. Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit writes to
the young pastor Timothy in his first letter: (1 Timothy 2:1-8)

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and
for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life
in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight
of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the
knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be
testified in due time. 7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle,
(I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in
faith and verity. 8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up
holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Only one mediator? Or to say it another way, only one intercessor? I'd say
that praying to any other as an intercessor is to be disobedient to God.

Todd

aggreen1

Then I suggest that you do not pray to God for your mother when she
lay dying. You wouldn't want to disobey God by praying for her instead
of her praying for herself.

LOL!!!

Al

todd r jerabek

Sorry Al, my mother's already dead. Died in 1994 after suffering with
Multiple Sclerosis and being confined to a bed - unable even hold her own
head up when she was placed into and strapped into her wheelchair - for the
last 14 years of her life. Thanks for the ad hominem, it does much to the
credibility of your position.

It is OK though, I know where she is. And, I know she knows no more pain or
sorrow. Partly, because she doesn't know what is going on here on earth,
like the rest of those already in heaven. Were they to know what was going
on, they'd be incredibly depressed to see us living in disobedience to God.

Anyway, please explain to me how your comment has anything to do in relation
to what I am talking about?

My mother didn't ***pray*** to me (once I am dead) for me to be a mediator
for her. I chose to pray for her of my own free will. Is she praying for
me in heaven? Yes! Is she praying the specifics that pertain to my life -
no.

There is only one we ***pray to*** and Christ intecedes for us.

Mary needed Christ as her intercessor.

If it is so correct for us to pray to anybody other than God Himself, how
come Christ didn't give us any directions for such? How about Paul? How
come we never find in Scripture any person invoking the saints - Abraham,
Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, etc... Certainly, if any were worthy of prayer,
it would be Melchizidek or Elijah - taken up to heaven without tasting
death? Wow!! Can Mary make such a claim? No. Was she the beloved
theotokos? Yes, the God-bearer. Was she sinless? No! Read her own
confession of faith, The Magnificat, she needed a Savior - something only
sinners need.

Now, can you discuss the topic or will you laugh at me and make fun another
one of my family members. How about my invalid brother (deals daily with
Spina Bifida paralyzed from the waist down)?

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Todd

aggreen1

***And now she's bodily in Heaven with Her Most Pure Son interceding
for us all...even you.

***As for the rest of your protestant questions...it is obvious that
you did not grow up in the Body of Christ, the Church founded by
Christ at Pentecost which existed and established traditions long
before the canon of the New Testament was "ratified" in 375 AD, that
alone has the power and authority to interpret the meaning of
Scripture.

***You might want to read up on the Orthodox church and then get back
to us. A good starting point is
http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html .

***Peace to you for a Blessed and Holy Nativity of our Lord and
Savior.

***If you thought I was making fun of your mother, I apologize. It
would appear that in your bias you failed to see or willfully chose to
not try and understand the point I was making. F****ve me. Al

todd r jerabek

Al writes:

***If you thought I was making fun of your mother, I apologize. It
would appear that in your bias you failed to see or willfully chose to
not try and understand the point I was making. F****ve me.

I find it a lie first of all to think you weren't poking fun. Your "LOL"
spoke volumes that your words now betray.

Furthermore, your apology falls very flat when you fill it with further
barbs - "Your bias" or "willfully chose" type comments.

I understand what you are saying, you are avoiding the question. Yes, that
is what you are doing... You resorted again to further ad hominem attacks
rather than answering the question from Scripture. Why? Because there is
no Scriptural answer. Instead, you write such drivel as:

***As for the rest of your protestant questions...it is obvious that
you did not grow up in the Body of Christ, the Church founded by
Christ at Pentecost which existed and established traditions long
before the canon of the New Testament was "ratified" in 375 AD, that
alone has the power and authority to interpret the meaning of
Scripture.***

I've read much of the Church Fathers, east and west. Wonderful. Great. So
what?? I'd still like to see something from the words of Christ or Paul or
even from the Old Testament which proves your point?

As for the rest of this, you came onto our Lutheran newsgroup with this
stuff. The cross-postings began with you - not me. It is in***bent upon
you to prove your point here, not me. Instead of ramblings, accusations,
and name-calling, prove your point. I have asked you rather simply to do
so.

You tried to be funny and cute with your sarcastic ad hominem by invoking my
mother. Nice attempt at misdirection. Too bad it was also insultive. It
didn't deal with the question raised.

Jesus says we are to pray to the Father - directly. Why would we go to God
through anybody other than Christ if we have the gracious invitation and
direction from God to go directly to Him?

So Al, is your only argument to be insulting to me? Calling me Protestant
and stuck in my own presuppositions? I am not a Protesant by the way, I am
a Lutheran - there are some serious differences.

As for growing up in the traditions, maybe you ought to get your nose out of
the canons and traditions and go back to the book. Are they instructive to
the interpretation of Scripture? Sure. One of my favorite commentaries on
Luke are the sermons of Saint Cyril of Alexandria. I think you will find
Scripture pretty clear, just as he did. No reliance upon tradition, just
the text.

When you can speak cogently to the topic without attacking what you think is
my belief system, I look forward to reading what you write. If you cannot
comment on the issue without ad hominem attacks, don't bother posting.

Pax Vobis***

Todd