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1 8th July 22:15
drr0cket
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (entity wise merit faith religion)


The New Testament keeps talking about obedience as evidence of faith. I
believe that is wrong.

I simply cannot accept that the human being has will and mind, both of
which are by nature liberty-seeking, in order that they be made to obey.
Man is a creature whose essence is freedom. To demand obedience of a
creature whose essence is freedom, is to fail to understand the nature
of one's own creation. Which error of judgment an omniscient entity
should know enough not to commit.

I will do good. I will achieve and perform good deeds. And I will love
the next person in the way that Bible commands - that is not to say that
I not be demanding of them.

But I will seek a relationship with God, not of obedience, but rather
of respect and collaboration. A relationship where I'm not a soldier
but a junior partner, respecting God's thoughts while also offering to
Him my thoughts, which He had not anticipated, and through respectful
give-and-take come up with the best solutions. Solutions that involve
both God and man and offer a synergy between two levels of
intelligence - between the maker and the creation; with the first
stating the will and the second informing the Creator of what a human
being, which the Creator has never been, faces in the world, and how
solutions are to be implemented that are most wise and merciful and lead
to the best possible state for the human beings.

As was the experience of Moses, who once talked God out of killing the
Jews.

In my relationships with women I will strive to have, not domination,
but communication. I will command respect through my thoughts and my
actions rather than demand it through force or religion. And I will
give respect according to merit rather than because it is demanded.

To state that man is head of his wife, is to give sinful human beings
the absolute power over other people - and thus to give them absolute
power to harm them. The Christian concept of human beings as sinful
demands checks-and-balances rather than hegemony, for through checks-
and-balances people prevent sin from growing out of control and
placing people utterly at its mercy. Checks-and-balances within the
overarching framework of mutual respect leads to a wonderful thing
called synergy, in which people use their minds jointly to arrive at
creative solutions that involve both parties and make out of their
minds, working within the atmosphere of mutual respect and
understanding of one's own role, the outcomes that make the best of
both.

I will strive to be my best and I will demand of people being their
best. And within the framework of striving toward mutual benefit, using
the mechanism of creative mind, will be forged the outcomes that make
the best of all parties.
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2 8th July 22:15
cbianco
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom


isnt essence another name for Cologne?


man is an animal that benefits from cultures of compassion and
intelligence and is stifled by cults built on fear or laziness or
authoritarian force.


800 SITUPS MOTHER****ER! NOW!!


especially of them verb police.

'down wi' the lode. yo das cool yo yo.'

To wish that i not export the garbage this morn', Milady.
To see my breakfast prepared by thee before me.

best = brief, concise, nonbloviational.


cbianco
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3 8th July 22:15
david
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Default Obedience and freedom (don)


I will strive to remember how bloody dull and dimwitted Ilya's
screedy rants are before I open the next one up, not so I'll
remember what to expect but so I'll remember to ignore it. I
really do know better, really.


D.

--
"I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it."
.................................................. ..................
(C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
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4 8th July 22:15
david
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (don)


And not getting caught wanking in public.


D.

--
"I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it."
.................................................. ..................
(C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
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5 8th July 22:15
crowfoot
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (god faith order rules soul)


I'll go you one further; I'm inclined to think that faith is silly, as
it requires its adherents to surrender their powers of choice in order
to follow the rules of whatever "god" they have "faith" (unquestioning
belief and obedience) in. Since I think the journeying soul matures by
making choices -- good ones, bad ones, all kinds, however you assess
them -- and dealing with the consequences, I see faith as a dodge to get
out of growing up, spiritually speaking, although of course no one can
really dodge that job. Sooner or later, you move on, so maybe I'd
better think of faith as a sort of parking lot where what is parked is
one's own intelligence and critical thinking -- until one becomes bored
enough or maybe disgusted enough with the results to move on.

While you are being "obedient" you are not using your soul, only your
most immature fearfulness of acting as an autonomous, responsible
individual. I'd say it's a terrible waste, but I don't really think
that any experience is wasted. We learn from all of it, willy nilly,
even if what the "faithful" are busy learning at the moment is how faith
and obedience delay moving on.

But then, I'm one of these people who read the Bible from end to end and
came away absolutely horrified by it; I felt as if I'd been locked up
with a mad, abusive parent for weeks on end ("Do what I tell you!
Because I said so, and if you don't I'm gonna kill you and then I'm
gonna kill your DOG! Take that, and don't complain, either! it's just
what you deserve, you sniveling worm!" "He told us to love one another,
except for the people I tell you not to love, and meantime be afraid, be
very afraid!"). Ugh. Nasty stuff, IMO, no matter how grand the poetry
of the thing can be.

C
--
Crow
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6 10th July 08:13
thanatos
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (prophet god religion bit soul)


Why do you assume anyone in alt.religion.christian cares what you
think?

Ilya, it's obvious you are looking for a new lover. Why don't you try
a more direct approach? Whoops, for a second I forgot that you are a whackbot. Disregard the question.


Do you pray? If so, how often do you correct your god?


Will you improve the world by ridding it of your soul ****ing existence?


Whack alert!!!

So, you think you are a prophet.

It took you a bit to get to your real point: finding someone new to soul ****.

Ilya, no self respecting woman will ever respect you.


So, have the "take me" emails started pouring in yet?
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7 10th July 08:13
catbrier04
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (entity don creation)


We are, by evolutionary development, a social creature, Ilya. Not as
you assert, as creatures who's "essence is freedom." This is your
first mistake.

Drop the idea of a "creation." It is misleading. Drop the idea of an
"omniscient entity" overseeing human development. It is equally misleading.


That's naive Ilya. As Lawrence Durrell says: "There's a promise made
in every bed." What we say we want and what we really want are quite
often at odds with each other - creating an internal imbalance. No one
has learned this more than me. My former promiscuity was really an
expression of inner need.

Whoa! Not good. A "relationship" with this abstraction is one thing -
believing that you are a "collaborator" borders on serious religious
presumption. (I see the whole question as silly - but that's just me.)

Now you want to be Moses? Ilya - Moses wasn't Moses! That's priestly story-telling!

How paternalistic of you. Why don't you just take care of Ilya? We are
all we are capable of managing.

Cat
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8 10th July 08:14
dmocsny
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (entity god religion sacrifice mind)


Ilya usually does not post reply articles. Therefore you
need to justify your assumption that Ilya is aware there is anyone else.

A human obeys his urge to seek liberty.


Man is the tool of his genes. Technically, he's a survival
machine. His genes are the puppetmaster, jerking him to and
fro by doling out emotional rewards and punishments as
necessary to push him toward surviving long enough to
make more copies of his genes.

Once he is no longer useful, his genes discard
him and live on in the next generation.

I think an omniscient entity is probably a few moves ahead of
you in this game. Maybe the omniscient entity just wants to
mess with your mind by doing things he programmed you to find nonsensical.


Man invents god, therefore Man can correct his invention.

The New Testament corrected numerous bugs in Jehovah 1.0,
enabling the new user-friendly version to grab a larger
market share. A later revision, code-named Allah, carved out new markets.

Sure, but every religion is whack, to the followers of
other contradictory religions.

Like those Incas who used to sacrifice their children to appease
their gods. That seems barbaric to some of us today, but we
sacrifice Iraqis in an attempt to make the world safe for
our SUVs. Which is worse?

-- the Danimal
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9 10th July 08:14
bob
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (time)


I've known him for nearly a decade. If he's still at his mom's I could
be talking with him in the time it'd take me to dial her number.
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10 11th July 17:31
catbrier04
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Posts: 1
Default Obedience and freedom (energy)


I assert that humans are innately communal and social.


Or scrap the whole concept as a retarded mindset.

Leave my SUV alone! I live where it snows and drive frequently
off-road. Our lack of a focused national energy policy free of
corporate manipulation is the problem there.

Cat
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