robert clark

Large deposits of carbonates had been expected to be wide spread on
Mars because of the extensive water in the distant past and because of
the CO2 atmosphere. Previously however deposits of carbonates had not
been seen from orbit. What was seen from orbit was small amounts of
carbonate in the form of dust sprinkled over the planet at perhaps the
2% amount. This was confirmed on the ground by the MER rovers which
also saw carbonate only in the form of dust in small amounts.
However, the Phoenix lander has found carbonates in significant
amounts at its landing site, perhaps in the 6%-8% range. The presence
of the carbonate here might be due to the alkalinity of the soil at
the Phoenix site compared to acidic soil, as indicated by the presence
of sulfates, at the other lander sites.
A new report however to be presented at the upcoming "Workshop on
Martian Phyllosilicates: Recorders of Aqueous Processes?" will argue
that carbonate best fits the spectra in a deposit in the Nili Fossae
region on Mars:

PHYLLOSILICATES, ZEOLITES, AND CARBONATE NEAR NILI FOSSAE, MARS:
EVIDENCE FOR DISTINCT ENVIRONMENTS OF AQUEOUS ALTERATION. B.L.
Ehlmann1, J.F. Mustard1, G.A. Swayze2, J.J. Wray3, O.S. Barnouin-Jha4,
J.L. Bishop5, D.J. Des Marais6, F. Poulet7, L.H. Roach1, R.E.
Milliken8, R.N. Clark2, S.L. Murchie4, and the MRO CRISM Team. 1Dept.
of Geological Sciences, Brown University, 2U.S. Geological Survey,
Denver, 3Cornell University, 4JHU-Applied Physics Laboratory 5SETI
Institute 6NASA Ames 7IAS, Université Paris-Sud, 8JPL-Caltech
(****@brown.edu)
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/aqu...8/pdf/7019.pdf

This is to be published in an upcoming article in Science.

Other interesting reports from this conference:

Program
Workshop on Martian Phyllosilicates: Recorders of Aqueous Processes?
October 21–23, 2008
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/aqu...df/program.pdf


Bob Clark

xxein

xxein: And? Do you think that would be significantly strange?

androcles

On Oct 12, 9:59 am, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:


xxein: And? Do you think that would be significantly strange?
===========================================
Yes. And?

robert clark

Planetary scientists were convinced there would be wide spread
carbonate deposits found on Mars, limestone and the like, because the
orbital imagery suggests there were flowing rivers, lakes, perhaps
even seas very early in Mars history and because of the carbon dioxide
atmosphere should have created abundant carbonate.
The lack of carbonate deposits found in the spectra taken from orbit
was somewhat of a embarrassment. So much so that many scientists began
to doubt Mars ever had a warm, wet period. Instead some proposed that
the extensive river channels seen on Mars were actually due to liquid
CO2 flows.
If this really is a carbonate deposit of this size that would mean
there was indeed large amount of liquid water present at some point.
Also, ancient life is frequently seen in association with carbonates
on Earth. In some cases the carbonate is even made up of ancient
lithified life. It will be important to accurately constrain the
placement period of this deposit.
If it is indeed carbonate it will also be important to understand the
geology and geochemistry of this region to serve as a guide for other
large deposits.

Bob Clark

john curtis

Carbonates and clays (phyllosilicates, aluminum silicates) are
largest constituents of ocean sediments. Both clays and
olivine are made of hydrated silicon, SiO4 (silicate), which
requires ~200 atmospheres of hydrostatic pressure for its
formation.. Note H4SiO4 in the plume of deep-sea volcano.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/vents/chemi...ges/vents2.gif
Allowing for the difference in gravities, we can estimate the
minimal depth of ancient oceans on Mars to be ~6 km.
Caution to undergrads: the ideas are speculative,
not suited for the classroom. John Curtis

hanson

On Oct 12, 6:59 am, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:


"John Curtis" wrote:
Carbonates and clays (phyllosilicates, aluminum silicates) are
largest constituents of ocean sediments. Both clays and
olivine are made of hydrated silicon, SiO4 (silicate), which
requires ~200 atmospheres of hydrostatic pressure for its
formation.. Note H4SiO4 in the plume of deep-sea volcano.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/vents/chemi...ges/vents2.gif ...[1]
Allowing for the difference in gravities, we can estimate the
minimal depth of ancient oceans on Mars to be ~6 km.
Caution to undergrads: the ideas are speculative,
not suited for the classroom. John Curtis

hanson wrote:
John, in your link there is a description and arrowed
pathway from "Seawater" to "Evolved Seawater" that
migrates from a, say, 2°C ocean up to a 400°C high
tem reaction zone and into an ever higher pressure
zone.
Tell me why is that "incoming" water not baked out and
backed out again towards the oceanfloor where it came
from.
What are the specific hydration processes and mineral
formations which happen and allow water to migrate
from a low energy state towards a high PT energy
environment? -- What is it that drives this H2O against
common thermodynamic rules?
hanson

androcles

Bicycles, of course. "The bicycle is there whether the fish recognizes it or
not" -- chacha hanson.

john curtis

You just exposed the lameness of the theory of hydrothermal
circulation. My interpretation is that in a volcano, hot
primordial gases are streaming through the vent and
heating the water:
http://www.soes.soton.ac.uk/staff/wjj/geol/geol.html
They also react with water to form salts: FeSiO4,
Ca(AlSiO4)2, ZnS, FeS2 ....
The same primordial gases (H2, CH4, H2S) if injected
into an oxygen-containing atmosphere would explode
a la Pinatubo with the production of entirely different
compounds: CO2, SO2, SiO2, Fe2O3 .......John Curtis

hanson

"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:

John Curtis wrote:
You just exposed the lameness of the theory of hydro-
thermal circulation [HTC]. My interpretation is that in a
volcano, hot primordial gases are streaming through
the vent and heating the water:
http://www.soes.soton.ac.uk/staff/wjj/geol/geol.html
They also react with water to form salts: FeSiO4,
Ca(AlSiO4)2, ZnS, FeS2 ....
The same primordial gases (H2, CH4, H2S) if injected
into an oxygen-containing atmosphere would explode
a la Pinatubo with the production of entirely different
compounds: CO2, SO2, SiO2, Fe2O3 .......John Curtis

hanson wrote:
.... ahahahaha.. HTC may sound "lame" to you and
astonishing to me but what is the reason and the strong
point that the geo establishment pushes their theory?
hanson

hanson

---------- ahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHA... ------

hanson wrote:
ahahahaha... my mutt, Androcles, tries so very hard
to be me... but he gets so excited that he always flies
off the handle and here is why:

While ALL other participants in this thread converse
intelligently and rationally , the de-licensed and now
mentally challenged ex-truck driver "Androcles", the
< Headwart at masterHog.physics >, sees himself
as a challenge when he flies off the handle and
== when he is in trouble and in doubt ==
== runs in circles, screams and shouts ==
which is exactly what he did when he wrote:

::A:: The cowardly fuck and aether loving crank, cha
::A:: cha hanson, made a personal attack and ran
::A:: away when challenged (like Dork Van de merde).

hanson wrote:
What "personal attack"?... ahaha... AHAHAHAHA...
The only thing personal I mentioned is what YOU
posted and bragged about, like YOUR booze bets,
YOUR "m = a/F", YOU being "a god", YOU being a
"truck driver", & I even told you: "Andro, we love ya!"..

So, what are you belly aching about and calling me
names for? -- Here read it again. It's for your benefit:

------ the post which Andro cranked himself over -----
:> hanson wrote
"Androcles" < Headwart at masterHog.physics >,
just posted some such physics, that **m = a/F.**
and fully believes that if he has the last word it will
make his delusions turn into fact.... ahahahaha...

Andro, the sucker, strains and remains firmly in the
grip of the Aether which he loudly reaffirmed in this
post: -------- http://tinyurl.com/48nybm ------------- wherein it says:

Gin soaked ex-truck driver "Androcles" said on
May 12th 08:
::A:: "the Vehicle Licensing Agency telling me I'm
::A:: losing my truck license on medical grounds so
::A:: that's the last of the honest day's work for me."

And so Andro kept tanking himself up, so much that
3 months later on (08-12-08) he hallucinated & said
::A:: *" boy, I'm a god "*. .... ahahaha... AHAHAHA...

Ex-truck driver Andro, now effectively de-motorized
but firmly in the grip & under control of his Gin, Aether
and his godly delusions begins to show that his own
very pedestrian OPINIONS about 18th century physics
are governed by Androcles' Principle that says

== When in trouble, when in doubt ==
== Run in circles, scream and shout == ====== Androcles' Principle =======

Therefore, to keep Androcles flying off the handle in
his altered state of consciousness, do him a great
compassionate favor and apply methods of...

----- ## ** How to crank Andorcles **## ------.

Tell the ex-truck driver Andorcles:
1) ==== that there is an Aether.......& he flies off the handle
2) ==== that Einstein was/is right...& he flies off the handle
3) ==== Snip some of his tripe.......& he flies off the handle
4) ==== that you doubt him..............& he flies off the handle
5) ==== that you agree with him......& he flies off the handle
6) ==== that you want to help him...& he flies off the handle
7) ==== that he made you laugh......& he flies off the handle
8) ==== Tell him ANYTHING............& he flies off the handle....

Andro is the perfect sucker!
Andro, we love ya!.. not for your
physics, but for all the laughs.
See, you are still good for some-
thing, even without a drivers license.
------------ ahahahaha... ahahahaha ---------------


PS:
Andro, you are so slow on the uptake. You still
don't know what is happening here and to you...
ahahahahahahaha.... **** So, long sucker! *****
ahahahaha... HAHAHA... ahahanson