roger coppock

Frank Altschuler, in a response to my post, "WHY DOES
"Dr." Convection CONTINUE TO TELL HALF-TRUTHS?" points
out that there are differences between the US Historical
Climatology Database as listed on the "CO2 Science" fossil
fuel industry web site and the actual USHCN 3-blank data
records on file at
//ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ushcn/hcn_doe_mean_data.Z
(a file dated May 30TH, 2003, which I downloaded in late
July.)

The table below points out the differences between data
for Princess Anne, MD from the NOAA's NCDC office and what
was returned by the "CO2 Science" web site at
http://co2science.org/ushcn/md/md.htm . Please note that
the differences, starting at 0 and increasing in magnitude
to 1.1 F, "cool" the time series from "CO2 Science."

Is "CO2Science" fabricating data? Can anyone find a third,
independent, and legitimate source for these data?

PRINCESS ANNE, MD
YEAR USHCN CO2Science Diff.
1823 54.7 54.680000 .0
1827 58.0 57.980000 .0
1830 59.0 58.960000 .0
1831 56.8 56.810000 .0
1832 57.9 57.930000 .0
1834 58.4 58.430000 .0
1836 54.5 54.540000 .0
1837 56.1 56.050000 .0
1838 56.9 56.890000 .0
1840 57.7 57.740000 .0
1841 56.7 56.670000 .0
1842 59.0 59.020000 .0
1843 57.6 57.620000 .0
1844 58.6 58.600000 .0
1846 60.2 60.220000 .0
1847 59.1 59.050000 .0
1848 59.0 58.970000 .0
1849 57.2 57.200000 .0
1895 54.5 54.340000 -.2
1896 54.2 53.960000 -.2
1897 54.6 54.420000 -.2
1898 55.9 55.740000 -.2
1899 54.6 54.390000 -.2
1900 56.4 56.190000 -.2
1901 54.2 53.980000 -.2
1902 54.7 54.530000 -.2
1903 54.6 54.410000 -.2
1904 52.7 52.470000 -.2
1905 54.3 54.100000 -.2
1906 56.1 55.870000 -.2
1907 53.7 53.540000 -.2
1908 55.4 55.220000 -.2
1909 55.0 54.780000 -.2
1910 54.7 54.540000 -.2
1911 55.6 55.360000 -.2
1912 54.5 54.340000 -.2
1913 56.8 56.640000 -.2
1914 54.3 54.140000 -.2
1915 55.3 55.060000 -.2
1916 54.7 54.520000 -.2
1917 52.9 52.690000 -.2
1918 54.9 54.680000 -.2
1919 55.7 55.520000 -.2
1920 54.5 54.330000 -.2
1921 57.5 57.280000 -.2
1922 55.9 55.700000 -.2
1923 55.2 54.950000 -.2
1924 53.9 53.650000 -.2
1925 56.0 55.780000 -.2
1926 54.6 54.370000 -.2
1927 55.9 55.690000 -.2
1928 55.5 55.290000 -.2
1929 56.1 55.870000 -.2
1930 55.7 55.450000 -.2
1931 56.1 55.910000 -.2
1932 56.0 55.830000 -.2
1933 57.1 56.860000 -.2
1934 55.6 55.380000 -.2
1935 55.0 54.830000 -.2
1936 56.0 55.830000 -.2
1937 56.2 56.000000 -.2
1938 56.8 56.570000 -.2
1939 57.2 56.980000 -.2
1940 54.1 53.920000 -.2
1941 56.5 56.250000 -.2
1942 56.6 56.290000 -.3
1943 56.5 55.750000 -.7
1944 56.3 55.630000 -.7
1949 58.8 57.750000 -1.0
1950 55.9 54.870000 -1.0
1951 56.3 55.240000 -1.1
1952 55.9 54.820000 -1.1
1953 57.4 56.370000 -1.0
1954 56.7 55.630000 -1.0
1955 56.0 54.960000 -1.0
1956 56.0 54.930000 -1.1
1957 56.7 55.680000 -1.0
1960 54.9 53.790000 -1.1
1961 55.6 54.580000 -1.0
1962 55.3 54.260000 -1.0
1963 55.4 54.380000 -1.0
1964 56.5 55.450000 -1.0
1967 54.6 53.550000 -1.0
1968 55.6 54.560000 -1.0
1969 55.6 54.490000 -1.1
1970 56.0 54.950000 -1.0
1971 56.9 55.860000 -1.0
1972 55.9 54.790000 -1.1
1973 57.4 56.300000 -1.1
1974 56.9 55.850000 -1.0
1975 57.6 56.510000 -1.1
1976 55.8 54.720000 -1.1
1977 56.9 55.820000 -1.1
1978 55.3 54.230000 -1.1
1979 56.3 55.270000 -1.1
1980 56.1 55.040000 -1.1
1981 55.6 54.540000 -1.1
1982 55.8 54.710000 -1.1
1983 56.6 55.510000 -1.1
1984 56.5 55.400000 -1.1
1986 57.1 56.040000 -1.1
1987 56.7 55.620000 -1.1
1988 55.7 54.630000 -1.1
1989 56.6 55.550000 -1.0
1991 58.4 57.360000 -1.0
1994 55.3 54.250000 -1.0
1996 56.0 54.920000 -1.1
1997 56.9 55.810000 -1.1


--

"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."

-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE


-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)


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frank altschuler

That's funny; that's not the file that you posted in your previous thread on
this subject. That file was
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ushcn/hcn_calc_mean_data.Z which is
probably something else yet again.

the files that are referenced in the readme that you posted are:

hcn_doe_max_data.Z
Areal Edited, Time of Observation, and Filnet Adjusted Maximum Monthly
Temperature
hcn_calc_mean_data.Z
Time of Observation and Filnet Adjusted Mean Monthly Temperature (Calculated
from hcn_doe_max_data.Z and hcn_doe_min_data.Z)
hcn_doe_mean_data.Z
Areal Edited, Time of Observation, and Filnet Adjusted Mean Monthly
Temperature
hcn_doe_min_data.Z
Areal Edited, Time of Observation, and Filnet Adjusted Minimum Monthly
Temperature
hcn_doe_pcp_data.Z
Areal Edited, Time of Observation, and Filnet Adjusted Monthly Precipitation
station.history.Z
Station History
station.inventory.Z
Station Inventory
station.landuse.Z
Station Area Land Use and Land Cover
urban_max_fahr.Z
Urban Heat Adjusted Maximum Monthly Temperature
urban_calc_mean_fahr.Z
Urban Heat Adjusted Mean Monthly Temperature
(Calculated from urban.max.Z and urban.min.Z)
urban_mean_fahr.Z
Urban Heat Adjusted Mean Monthly Temperature
urban_min_fahr.Z
Urban Heat Adjusted Minimum Monthly Temperature

For the life of me I really don't know which is the "right" file to compare
with the Idso's data which was really the question that I was asking in the
other thread.

roger coppock

This file contains "3 " records, raw(er) data than the data
file you mention below. It has some data before the year 1860

That file contains "3A" records which are adjusted for the Urban Heat
Island effect. It also has no data before 1860.

My previous post listed results from both files, but used no data before 1860.


I don't know either. You are asking a very important question!
To restate the question:
Did the data from the "CO2Science" site come from some valid source,
or did our "CO2Scientist" alter and/or fabricate something?


--

"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."

-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE


-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)


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roger coppock

One of many possible theories


Can you find a legitimate source with data matching those
published on the "CO2 Science" website or are these data
unique to that single location. Did "CO2Science" fabricate
or alter data? In my experience, it is useless to ask the
Idso's, they never answer.

--

"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."

-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE


-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)


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frank altschuler

Well, here's what they have on their web page:
http://www.co2science.com/temperatures/ghcn_des.htm
Global Historical Climate Network (GHCN) Data Set Description

The Global Historical Climate Network (GHCN) data set is a product of the
National Climatic Data Center, Arizona State University, and the Carbon
Dioxide Information Analysis Center. It is composed of annual gridded
temperature data at a grid-box resolution of 5° latitude by 5° longititude
over the period from 1880 to 1998. Approximately 7200 surface stations make
up the gridded temperature data set, but not all 7200 stations have been in
operation in any one given year. In fact, only about 500 of the 7200
stations were in operation in 1880. This number increased steadily to a
maximum of 5464 in 1966, after which it declined rapidly to the present-day
station total of around 2000. A plot showing the location of all 7200
stations that have been used at one time or another in the data set can be
found here, while a plot of the total yearly number of stations in operation
can be found here.
Annual temperatures from the GHCN data set are expressed as anomalies that
have been calculated as described in Peterson et al. (1998). Numerous
quality control measures have been applied to the raw data in an effort to
ensure accuracy of the records. Detailed discussions of these methods and
procedures have been published by Peterson et al. (1997).
When referencing this data set, or any of its output as calculated on our
web site, please cite as:
Peterson, T.C. and Vose, R.S. 1997. An overview of the Global Historical
Climatology Network temperature data base. Bulletin of the American
Meteorological Society 78: 2837-2849.
Calculate trends using the GHCN data set now.
References
Peterson, T.C., Vose, R.S., Schmoyer, R. and Razuvacv, V. 1997. The
quality control of monthly climate data. International Journal of
Climatology 18: 1169-1179.
Peterson, T.C., Karl, T.R., Jamason, P.F., Knight, R. and Easterling, D.R.
1998. First difference method: Maximizing station density for the
calculation of long-term global temperature change. Journal of Geophysical
Research - Atmospheres 103 (D20): 25,967-25,974.

frank altschuler

Correction: for the "USHCN Temperature Record of the Week" they use the raw
data:

http://www.co2science.com/ushcn/ushcn_des.htm
U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) Data Set Description

The U.S. Historical Climatological Network (USHCN) data set is a product of
the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) and the National
Climatic Data Center (NCDC). It is composed of monthly temperature and
precipitation data from 1221 stations located within the conterminous United
States. A plot showing the location of all 1221 stations can be found here.
The period of record varies for each station. Most stations have at least
80 years of continuous data and extend through December of 2000. Stations
with longer records extend back to the early to mid-1800s. NCDC/CDIAC do
not update the adjusted USHCN data set annually, likely due, in part, to the
amount of time, effort and money required to do so. We do not know when the
next revision of this data set will be performed, but we will include the
new data when they become available. Given the spurious warming trend
identified by Balling and Idso (2002) that exists in the "corrected"
versions of the USHCN database, the Center has opted to utilize the
database's RAW version throughout the U.S. Climate Data section of its
website. For a complete description of the corrections applied to the USHCN
database, as well as the available versions, please contact NCDC. However,
some of this information can also be found in the Center's review of the
Balling and Idso paper.
When referencing this data set, or any of its output as calculated on our
web site, please cite as indicated below:
Easterling, D.R., Karl, T.R., Mason, E.H., Hughes, P.Y., Bowman, D.P.,
Daniels, R.C. and Boden, T.A. (Eds.). 1996. United States Historical
Climatology Network (U.S. HCN) Monthly Temperature and Precipitation Data.
ORNL/CDIAC-87, NDP-019/R3. Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak
Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
References:
Balling Jr., R.C. and Idso, C.D. 2002. Analysis of adjustments to the United
States Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) temperature database.
Geophysical Research Letters 10.1029/2002GL014825.
Easterling, D.R., Karl, T.R., Mason, E.H., Hughes, P.Y., Bowman, D.P.,
Daniels, R.C. and Boden, T.A. (Eds.). 1996. United States Historical
Climatology Network (U.S. HCN) Monthly Temperature and Precipitation Data.
ORNL/CDIAC-87, NDP-019/R3. Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak
Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

roger coppock

GHCN and USHCN are two different databases, we started this thread by
looking at obviously different versions of USHCN for Princess Anne, MD.

--

"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."

-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE


-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)


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roger coppock

I went to CDIAC web site page for USHCN,
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/epubs/ndp019/ndp019.html
CDIAC has no version of USHCN as new as 1997,
which was the last data point we had for
Princess Anne, MD. CDIAC's page also points
to the same page at the NCDC where I found
my USHCN "3 " file.

I can't find a valid source for the data on the
"CO2Science" site so it is likely that our
"CO2Scientist" altered and/or fabricated.
Simply subtracting a degree F or more from every
data point in the last half century, is fraud
designed to mask the global warming signal.
I've sent the Idso's a simple request for
information, and I suggest you do to. I don't
expect any answer. Their E-mail address is
info@co2science.org.


PRINCESS ANNE, MD
YEAR USHCN CO2Science Diff.
1823 54.7 54.680000 .0
1827 58.0 57.980000 .0
1830 59.0 58.960000 .0
1831 56.8 56.810000 .0
1832 57.9 57.930000 .0
1834 58.4 58.430000 .0
1836 54.5 54.540000 .0
1837 56.1 56.050000 .0
1838 56.9 56.890000 .0
1840 57.7 57.740000 .0
1841 56.7 56.670000 .0
1842 59.0 59.020000 .0
1843 57.6 57.620000 .0
1844 58.6 58.600000 .0
1846 60.2 60.220000 .0
1847 59.1 59.050000 .0
1848 59.0 58.970000 .0
1849 57.2 57.200000 .0
1895 54.5 54.340000 -.2
1896 54.2 53.960000 -.2
1897 54.6 54.420000 -.2
1898 55.9 55.740000 -.2
1899 54.6 54.390000 -.2
1900 56.4 56.190000 -.2
1901 54.2 53.980000 -.2
1902 54.7 54.530000 -.2
1903 54.6 54.410000 -.2
1904 52.7 52.470000 -.2
1905 54.3 54.100000 -.2
1906 56.1 55.870000 -.2
1907 53.7 53.540000 -.2
1908 55.4 55.220000 -.2
1909 55.0 54.780000 -.2
1910 54.7 54.540000 -.2
1911 55.6 55.360000 -.2
1912 54.5 54.340000 -.2
1913 56.8 56.640000 -.2
1914 54.3 54.140000 -.2
1915 55.3 55.060000 -.2
1916 54.7 54.520000 -.2
1917 52.9 52.690000 -.2
1918 54.9 54.680000 -.2
1919 55.7 55.520000 -.2
1920 54.5 54.330000 -.2
1921 57.5 57.280000 -.2
1922 55.9 55.700000 -.2
1923 55.2 54.950000 -.2
1924 53.9 53.650000 -.2
1925 56.0 55.780000 -.2
1926 54.6 54.370000 -.2
1927 55.9 55.690000 -.2
1928 55.5 55.290000 -.2
1929 56.1 55.870000 -.2
1930 55.7 55.450000 -.2
1931 56.1 55.910000 -.2
1932 56.0 55.830000 -.2
1933 57.1 56.860000 -.2
1934 55.6 55.380000 -.2
1935 55.0 54.830000 -.2
1936 56.0 55.830000 -.2
1937 56.2 56.000000 -.2
1938 56.8 56.570000 -.2
1939 57.2 56.980000 -.2
1940 54.1 53.920000 -.2
1941 56.5 56.250000 -.2
1942 56.6 56.290000 -.3
1943 56.5 55.750000 -.7
1944 56.3 55.630000 -.7
1949 58.8 57.750000 -1.0
1950 55.9 54.870000 -1.0
1951 56.3 55.240000 -1.1
1952 55.9 54.820000 -1.1
1953 57.4 56.370000 -1.0
1954 56.7 55.630000 -1.0
1955 56.0 54.960000 -1.0
1956 56.0 54.930000 -1.1
1957 56.7 55.680000 -1.0
1960 54.9 53.790000 -1.1
1961 55.6 54.580000 -1.0
1962 55.3 54.260000 -1.0
1963 55.4 54.380000 -1.0
1964 56.5 55.450000 -1.0
1967 54.6 53.550000 -1.0
1968 55.6 54.560000 -1.0
1969 55.6 54.490000 -1.1
1970 56.0 54.950000 -1.0
1971 56.9 55.860000 -1.0
1972 55.9 54.790000 -1.1
1973 57.4 56.300000 -1.1
1974 56.9 55.850000 -1.0
1975 57.6 56.510000 -1.1
1976 55.8 54.720000 -1.1
1977 56.9 55.820000 -1.1
1978 55.3 54.230000 -1.1
1979 56.3 55.270000 -1.1
1980 56.1 55.040000 -1.1
1981 55.6 54.540000 -1.1
1982 55.8 54.710000 -1.1
1983 56.6 55.510000 -1.1
1984 56.5 55.400000 -1.1
1986 57.1 56.040000 -1.1
1987 56.7 55.620000 -1.1
1988 55.7 54.630000 -1.1
1989 56.6 55.550000 -1.0
1991 58.4 57.360000 -1.0
1994 55.3 54.250000 -1.0
1996 56.0 54.920000 -1.1
1997 56.9 55.810000 -1.1


Yes, they do. I have downloaded new versions of the calc_mean file
in 2000, 2001, and 2002 from the NCDC. (As you pointed out, they
do not update the dates in their "README.TXT" file.)

--

"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."

-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE


-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)


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