monkeyman04

January 2, 2004
By FAY VINCENT
VERO BEACH, Fla.
So word is that Pete Rose finally admits in his new book that he bet on
baseball. I guess I am supposed to feel vindicated since he spent the
last 14 years calling John Dowd and me names. Mr. Dowd was the baseball
lawyer who did the investigation of Mr. Rose and prepared a report we're
now told was accurate. Next we're likely to have the spectacle of Mr.
Rose being embraced by Bud Selig, the baseball commissioner, and, like
the Prodigal Son, ushered to the front row of baseball's most honored
citizens.
Pardon me while I rise to urge some caution. Ever since St. Augustine
set the bar pretty high, there has been a certain style to confessional
tomes. Now we have a mea culpa by Mr. Rose and no saint is he.


reports are that Mr. Rose confronts his past with very little remorse.
Between him and Augustine, there is little doubt whose book will live
longer.
Why are we hearing from Mr. Rose now? Credit Mr. Selig for insisting on
the admission of betting before letting Mr. Rose in baseball again. It's
possible that Mr. Rose wants some of the big money being paid top
managers like Joe Torre. But I think there is more at work here. A
player has 20 years after he last played to be elected by the baseball
writers to the Hall of Fame. After that time has run out, the election
can be done only by the living members of the Hall. Thus, Mr. Rose, who
last played in 1986, is running out of time. He knows his best shot is
with the writers, many of whom share the view that the only conduct that
counts is what took place on the field. The Hall of Famers are a cranky
lot who last year failed to elect Marvin Miller, who led the players
union and whose credentials are solid gold. So Mr. Rose, a careful
historian of the game, is playing the odds wisely. Nothing wrong so far.
Now the issue for Mr. Selig is what to do. I suggest that if Mr. Rose is
to be reinstated to full rights in baseball, there should be a two-year
period of transition. During this time, I would require Mr. Rose to
travel the baseball highway to spell out to youngsters and fans why
gambling is a threat to the game and why his decisions as manager were
corrupted by betting on one game and not another. The sincerity of his
redemption can be tested and he will have done some public service to
earn his way back. After all, the issue now is not what is best for Mr.
Rose, but what is best for baseball.
The two-year delay in reinstatement will give him one shot at being
elected by the writers. And then, if he fails that, he may receive the
honor via the Hall of Famers themselves. And I can live with that, as I
suspect most fans would, though I am not at all certain his election is
a sure bet, if I may be excused that term.
I also suggest that Mr. Selig pardon all those whose names are still on
the ineligible list, including Max Lanier, banned for jumping to the
Mexican League to make more money, a Phillies owner who bet on his team
and was tossed out and, of course, Shoeless Joe Jackson, whose
participation in the Black Sox betting scandal might in today's
jurisprudence be excused by his diminished capacity to have known fully
what he was doing.
Perhaps this will be the end of the whole sorry Pete Rose case. As the
baseball commmissioner at the time, Bart Giamatti, said when he
announced that Mr. Rose had agreed to banishment, baseball has been
hurt, badly, by Mr. Rose's actions. Now as we confront his plea for
mercy and a second chance, we ought to remind ourselves of Mr.
Giamatti's wisdom in identifying the pain inflicted by such a great
player. I only wish Mr. Rose had a better sense of why Augustine's
"Confessions" strike such a chord with the rest of us sinners.*
Fay Vincent was commissioner of Major League Baseball from 1989 to 1992.

swamp fox

January 2, 2004
By FAY VINCENT
VERO BEACH, Fla.
So word is that Pete Rose finally admits in his new book that he bet on
baseball. I guess I am supposed to feel vindicated since he spent the
last 14 years calling John Dowd and me names. Mr. Dowd was the baseball
lawyer who did the investigation of Mr. Rose and prepared a report we're
now told was accurate. Next we're likely to have the spectacle of Mr.
Rose being embraced by Bud Selig, the baseball commissioner, and, like
the Prodigal Son, ushered to the front row of baseball's most honored
citizens.
Pardon me while I rise to urge some caution. Ever since St. Augustine
set the bar pretty high, there has been a certain style to confessional
tomes. Now we have a mea culpa by Mr. Rose and no saint is he.
Augustine, having lived it up, saw the light and wrote with a sense of
guilt and regret. He even anguished over having stolen a pear. Early
reports are that Mr. Rose confronts his past with very little remorse.
Between him and Augustine, there is little doubt whose book will live
longer.
Why are we hearing from Mr. Rose now? Credit Mr. Selig for insisting on
the admission of betting before letting Mr. Rose in baseball again. It's
possible that Mr. Rose wants some of the big money being paid top
managers like Joe Torre. But I think there is more at work here. A
player has 20 years after he last played to be elected by the baseball
writers to the Hall of Fame. After that time has run out, the election
can be done only by the living members of the Hall. Thus, Mr. Rose, who
last played in 1986, is running out of time. He knows his best shot is
with the writers, many of whom share the view that the only conduct that
counts is what took place on the field. The Hall of Famers are a cranky
lot who last year failed to elect Marvin Miller, who led the players
union and whose credentials are solid gold. So Mr. Rose, a careful
historian of the game, is playing the odds wisely. Nothing wrong so far.
Now the issue for Mr. Selig is what to do. I suggest that if Mr. Rose is
to be reinstated to full rights in baseball, there should be a two-year
period of transition. During this time, I would require Mr. Rose to
travel the baseball highway to spell out to youngsters and fans why
gambling is a threat to the game and why his decisions as manager were
corrupted by betting on one game and not another. The sincerity of his
redemption can be tested and he will have done some public service to
earn his way back. After all, the issue now is not what is best for Mr.
Rose, but what is best for baseball.
The two-year delay in reinstatement will give him one shot at being
elected by the writers. And then, if he fails that, he may receive the
honor via the Hall of Famers themselves. And I can live with that, as I
suspect most fans would, though I am not at all certain his election is
a sure bet, if I may be excused that term.
I also suggest that Mr. Selig pardon all those whose names are still on
the ineligible list, including Max Lanier, banned for jumping to the
Mexican League to make more money, a Phillies owner who bet on his team
and was tossed out and, of course, Shoeless Joe Jackson, whose
participation in the Black Sox betting scandal might in today's
jurisprudence be excused by his diminished capacity to have known fully
what he was doing.
Perhaps this will be the end of the whole sorry Pete Rose case. As the
baseball commmissioner at the time, Bart Giamatti, said when he
announced that Mr. Rose had agreed to banishment, baseball has been
hurt, badly, by Mr. Rose's actions. Now as we confront his plea for
mercy and a second chance, we ought to remind ourselves of Mr.
Giamatti's wisdom in identifying the pain inflicted by such a great
player. I only wish Mr. Rose had a better sense of why Augustine's
"Confessions" strike such a chord with the rest of us sinners.
Fay Vincent was commissioner of Major League Baseball from 1989 to 1992.

mike oxbig

I know what an independent investigation consists of. John Dowd is a PISS
POOR investigator. You cannot fabricate evidence and interject opinion to
make ends meet.

John Dowd remains passionate on this issue after so many years, because he
did a bad job. Fay Vincent is a bitter old prick that did nothing to
improve the game of baseball.

Pete has been fed the story, if you just confess, you will be f****ven and
reinstated. He hasn't even done it yet, and just look at the responses.

swamp fox

January 2, 2004
By FAY VINCENT VERO BEACH, Fla.
<snip>

Uh, he's never been voted on. If he were allowed a vote, he's in like Flint.


So this scheister Marvin Miller should be in the hall? I think that's
ridiculous.

And Johnny Cochrane belongs in Canton for freeing OJ, I guess.

clockwork orange

76 trombones in the big parade, MONKEYMAN04@webtv.net (NIGHT
MONKEY)!!!


Heh.

--
Cheers,
--Jeff
Let's Go Orange!

swamp fox

However, it does sell a lot of copies of SI, doesn't it? Subscribe today and
get the Swimsuit issue!

I have a feeling this is addressed in Pete's book and he's something to say
about Vincent and Dowd. This article could be damage control on Vincent's
part. People may talk about it for whole days before they forget about it.

I'm not going to disagree but the office of the Commissioner was practically
emasculated years ago. What has Selig done? Oh, yes, the A/S game now
controls who gets home field advantage. That didn't make the game this year
that much more enjoyable, IMHO.

locutus

IF he does admit to betting on baseball, I don't know that I would
necessarily believe it. He has been wanting back into baseball, so badly,
for such a long time, I am willing to "bet" that he would admit to betting
on baseball, even if he hadn't, just to get back in. I read the Dowd report
many years ago, and while my memory isn't all that clear on the content, I
do remember that a lot of it was speculation on top of speculation to prove
a previously stated "fact" that seemed to be more of an opinion than
anything else. I cleary remember that I wasn't convinced.

stebain

Nor was I convinced. And to take any suggestions from Fay Vincent, the
Anti-Rose, would be bollocks in my opinion.

dennis

The Dowd report was shoody at best. But that is besides the point. Rose
convinced me years ago that he was setup, and that the allegations were
false.

Now Rose is gonna belly up and admit he committed baseballs cardinal sin,
and then lied to us all denying his guilt for 15 years?

What the Black Sox did by throwing a World Series is a greater degree of
wrong, then if Pete betted on his Reds. If Pete bet against the Reds then
the sin is equal to the 19 Sox.

As far as I am concerned, Pete deserves a lifetime expulsion from the game,
then add 5 years to that for lying to us all.

And as far as his book goes, I already purchased Pete Rose My Story 15 years
ago. I aint no ****er, and aint about to buy another book, nor another Rose
autograph.

dennis

The Dowd report was shoody at best. But that is besides the point. Rose
convinced me years ago that he was setup, and that the allegations were
false.

Now Rose is gonna belly up and admit he committed baseballs cardinal sin,
and then lied to us all denying his guilt for 15 years?

What the Black Sox did by throwing a World Series is a greater degree of
wrong, then if Pete betted on his Reds. If Pete bet against the Reds then
the sin is equal to the 19 Sox.

As far as I am concerned, Pete deserves a lifetime expulsion from the game,
then add 5 years to that for lying to us all.

And as far as his book goes, I already purchased Pete Rose My Story 15 years
ago. I aint no ****er, and aint about to buy another book, nor another Rose
autograph.