mario r

Here we go again, approaching a season(or not) and no identified #1 center,
no PP specialist. Not only that but once more we lose our #1 from the season
before. Again to strange circumstance that speaks to a deficit in Lowes
management. This was a classic "caught sleeping at the finish line" perhaps
Lowes been watching the Olympic team. It was clear through the negotiation
that the Oil did not want to appear too committed in any way to signing
Nedved. Lowe did the "we don't want to tip our hat" thing and lost yet
another round. He seems to be on a cold spell. FTR Dvorak deal is the last
good move he's made, its been awhile, we're waiting. (being handed Nedved
doesn't count, sorry)
After Calgarys achievement last season I am one of those fans that think
that the bar has been set higher for the Oil, that there will be significant
unrest after missing the playoffs 2/3 of the last seasons. I can of course
hear the boobirds already, I've been one of them.
So I ask wheres the demonstration of commitment to winning? Wheres the
pursuit of excellence? Commitment to the fans? I don't see it, haven't seen
much of it for 2 years now. Any season ticket holders out there care to
comment. or anybody?
Our only hope of avoiding embarrassment is a strike or lockout.

bart oleksy

Why wouldn't the Nedved deal count? He also got Markkanen at the same
time, so that seems like a pretty good deal for us. I also REALLY liked
the Oates signing at the time...was a bit of a risk, and it didn't work
out in the end, but at the time it seemed like a great thing. And
picking up Ulanov was a quiet but really good signing as well.

Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see Lowe be able to grab a really good
player to help the Oilers next year, but since the season isn't anywhere
close to starting, I'm also willing to wait and see how his "Plan B"
works out.

It's too bad Nedved didn't want to be here (since he didn't give Lowe
the chance to meet or beat Phoenix's offer), and we'll see if that turns
out to be a good thing for the Oilers or not when play finally resumes.
We'll see which Nedved the Coyotes got. ;-) Plus I didn't want him
guaranteed for 3 years, like he got with Phoenix.

We'll just see if Lowe pulls something off by the time the Oilers hit
the ice again.

Bart

mario and carole

I don't know what to make of this team if the 2004-2005 season gets off the
ground. Not having Salo in goal should mean about 10 extra points in the
standings but without an upgrade at center ice we'll continue to lose ground
in teh Western Conference. Phoenix has certainly improved themselves during
the off season and the Flames who came within a goal of winning the cup last
year aren't standing still. We need to be proactive and it's time ownership
raises the stakes so a bonified product is hitting the ice whenever hockey
starts up again.

Mario

bart oleksy

I'm not convinced that Phoenix has really improved that much. Hull is a
high-profile name, but there were many many reports of him being a
'cancer' in the dressing room, and his production was way down last
year. He might be done. Nedved is still a question mark - will he play
as well as he did here down the stretch last year, or more like he did
in New York? Phoenix has certainly added salary ($40M and counting) and
experience, but it remains to be seen if they'll be improving or turning
into the Rangers of the Desert... ;-)

Calgary lost Conroy, Gauthier and Saprykin & gained Langkow... but they
will have Kiprusoff for a whole season, and if he keeps up his great
play from last year, then they'll definitely be in the mix.

San Jose has lost players (Damphousse, Ricci) and not added any - are
they going to be better or worse? Or will they make a move later when
the CBA deal is more settled? Could be the same with the Oilers, but
we'll see what kind of team they ice when NHL hockey finally does start
up again. Until then, it's all meaningless.

Bart

mario r

I should have put your name in brackets after sorry. I knew you'd call me on
it ;o)
To me the Nedved deal doesn't count because he was handed to Lowe by Sather
who showed much interest in helping some of the Canadian teams specifically.
That he would want to do the deal with a buddy, Kev, or help an old canadian
team does not say anything about our GM's ability specifically other than he
has the obvious network or two. This isn't going to be enough. Lowe has
shown me that he is out of his league in protracted negotiation and in
dealing with agents, other GM's. He has just alienated our last two #1
centers.

He also got Markkanen at the same


This is interesting accounting as you know that Markkanen shows up on both
sides of the ledger. Kev has had him pencilled in as a liability and an
asset at different times in accountingspeak.

I also REALLY liked

The Oil didn't get anything much out of it and yet another indication that
MacT has trouble motivating some players. And


Sure, sometimes its hard for me to shake my dislike of the teams actions vs
those of Lowe specifically. The Oil gave up Ulanov who played good for them,
and then get him back and he plays good for them. I'm missing that theres
any rocket science involved here Bart. ;o)


I'm honestly hoping for a long and protracted holdout. Its time, I would as
a fan easily be willing to forfeit a season for the NHL to get its house in
order. I'll probably follow the roadrunners in any case.

We're definitely in agreement on this. Nedved has never been the poster boy
for work ethic and a long contract was just going to be stupid. Count me as
one of the ones doubting what Phoenix is doing right now. How do you gell a
team with 8 or 9 new veterans? Didn't the Avalanche already demonstrate the
basic futility of this?


Well that safely buys him some time but I'll still knock him once in awhile
if circumstance requires. I'm kind of in the middle here on this latest
thing as i agree that the 3 year contract was not the way to go. What gets
me is that they let the fish off the hook. It just strikes me as odd that
the deliberation was so muted that Lowe doesn't even get a last play. I'm
getting a disturbing view that Lowe is bullied by other owners, GM's,
agents, who tell him "how its gonna be" To me its ridiculous that its okay
with Kev that Barnett told the Nedved camp not to give Lowe a final shot.
Lowe's gotta learn how to play with the sharks as he just got pushed off the
meal again and he'll starve at this rate. A grizzled shark would've seen
this ploy a mile away and combat it before it even occurred. Not sure if you
see the pattern I'm seeing but theres some evidence for it by now.

mario r

Funny, we said this simultaneously. I just took longer to finish my post. Hull is a


Hull, Comrie, Nedved, Saprykin, Cleary, Nash, Nazarov in the same dressing
room?
Are they planning on combating this legion of indifference with Iron hard Mike Keenan?

Hard not to lose some players when they accounted for themselves so well.
Good teams almost always lose some. Calgary is fighting the good fight to
keep a contending team. FTR it will be hard of course for the flames to
repeat this level of success.

True, hell with us missing the playoffs and now this its been meaningless
for too long. I miss the steady debate around here, welcome back btw! maybe
some of us can become experts on the farm team now

bart oleksy

Not necessarily...I've been away from here for most of the summer! ;-)

Well, I don't agree that it was Sather seeking out Lowe looking to give
him a gift, but we may never know the truth.

And since you brought up Comrie, do we really need to re-hash that all
over again? How did he alienate Comrie? By mentioning his name (along
with several others) who didn't play well enough in the playoffs? He
didn't seem to alienate the other guys he named.

And how did he "alienate" Nedved? By not giving him a huge 3-yr deal?
TOUGH! I'm glad he didn't fall for that one.

Any examples? Not sure what you mean. Yes, he traded away Markkanen
earlier, but the Oilers were going to lose one of their goalies in the
waiver draft if he hadn't. It would either have been Conklin or
Markkanen, as the Oilers had already decided Salo was worth trying one
more season (which we can all agree now was a bad move). So Lowe got
"something" for Jussi, then got him back later once Salo was gone.

I can't see that Oates' poor play was due to a lack of motivation...
Maybe MacT didn't use him properly, but it took a while to figure out
what we had in Oates, since he wasn't in game shape when we acquired
him. (You might argue that he never *did* get in game shape!)


No, but circumstances change very quickly with NHL teams. Ulanov was
coming off a very strong year with the Oilers (although a weak playoff
series), and found someone to give him a big chunk of money that most
people (other than Slats) thought he was worth. Ulanov's play suffered,
went through a couple other teams, was in the minors when Lowe offered
him a minor-league contract with the Oilers. So you say "shame on Lowe"
for letting Ulanov go in the first place? I'd say it was a smart
business move, as Ulanov wasn't worth that much at the time. I think we
got Staios for $1.1M shortly after.

Agreed - looks like the players think the owners are bluffing & will
back down again, but I sure hope - for the good of the game - that it gets 'fixed'.


There are other examples, although the Wings have made it work for a
number of years now. Still, there are more examples of failure than
success. I sure hope Phoenix becomes another failure! ;-)


It's not actually up to Kevin whether an agent comes back to him with an
offer to meet or beat, though...so why would he get upset about it? You
just want him to LOOK upset when stuff like this happens?

How could he have combatted this Nedved deal, anyway? If Petr wanted to
be as close to LA as possible, and there are teams closer than Edmonton
who want him, what could Lowe do? Aside from opening up the vault,
which most of us wouldn't have wanted either.

I do actually see some of what you're talking about, though, and it does
bear watching. Lowe's made some good deals & I hope he has a few more
left in him, but it still takes two to tango, and another team's gotta
want what we have.

Bart

mario r

Sather has commented since that he didn't mind helping the Canadian teams.
Montreal, Edmonton, Toronto, Vancouver all benefitted. All Lowe had to do on
this one is have his open hand extended.


Its clear that he alienated Comrie and that we don't agree on this. Comrie
is a much different bird obviously but the team set this all up by at 1st
worshipping him and then trying to confront him. We've discussed this in detail.

They didn't necessarily. sorry, careless sentence on my part. They lost the
interest of Nedved somehow. Perhaps Nedved wasn't interested in being the
teams lone savior.

By not giving him a huge 3-yr deal?

well I would've kept Markkanen at the time......

It would either have been Conklin or


letting Salo go at the time would've been astute and saved some $ to sign a good player.


Sure it was. Oates was floating. Look at his performance, look at game films
after the Nedved acquisition when Oates suddenly increased his effort
largely out of embarrasment. Oates was all too quick to use all the excuses:
just fitting in, new systems, playing with new players etc. Nedved fit in
immediately on the same team and ALL the excuses were gone just like that.
They didn't get on Oates case at all and it was all "were very pleased
you're just showing up" Suddenly Nedved comes in and its all: "we've got
this playoff miracle dream we'd like you to shore up" Seemed to me like the
teams expectations of the respective players was entirely different.


For sure. But when a players at less than optimal conditioning you can still
go hard for brief durations. He didn't bring any consistent intensity till petr showed him up.

I didn't say that. Just saying that once he was again available that he
clearly had the stuff that benefits the oils system. same as Staios. Theres
no brilliance involved in that its just knowing what your system is and
getting players with the right ingredients. Sutter for instance has this
pegged and we should expect no less direction in our team.


The NHLPA will find out soon enough its not a bluff!

People fail to understand that in Detroit they had the veteran leadership
and integrity through Yzerman and Shanahan, Chelios, that wasn't going to
accept anything less than the best. When you see a guy like Hull as a role
player you know that the incoming players are adapting and doing whatever it
takes to make the team successful. This dressingroom integrity has to be
clearly in place before the influx. Phoenix could be a mess, who's leading this team?

As a manager proactively managing a situation like this he HAS to ensure
that he has input and that the other side does not usurp the entire
negotiation. Kev ended up on the outside looking in. Never where you want to
be in negotiating. He looked like an amateur again. Not sure how many of
these trials are necesary before he realizes he's getting played. I think
you do see it too.

Its clear that $ wasn't the factor. The Oil were quite prepared to offer the
same contract that Petr signed with Phoenix.


Last season in the Comrie negotiations the other Manager always seemed in
the drivers seat telling Lowe precisely what was on the menu. Then Clarke
subsequently deals a player that the Oil wanted thus showing that the menu
is never written in stone... Theres 30 teams in the league and it was clear
that Philly wasn't REALLY motivated. Clarke was all "Well if you want to
just give the guy to me I'm not going to refuse"