moxie

For woods and drivers, is the decision to move from a Firm Graphite to a
Steel shaft made based on swing speed, feel or both?

I have about a 110 mph swing speed and have always played firm graphite for
drivers and 3 wood. I just recently tested a few new 3 woods with steel
shaft (Titleist 980, Callaway Steelhead III, and others) against their firm
graphite counterparts. I hit consistantly much better with the steel. I'm
actually considering trying a steel shaft on my driver. I always thought
that steel shafts on woods were for ultra high swing speeds. Is this not
true? What are the pros and cons of getting a steel shafted 3 wood or
driver?

Thanks for the advice.

moxie

For woods and drivers, is the decision to move from a Firm Graphite to a
Steel shaft made based on swing speed, feel or both?

I have about a 110 mph swing speed and have always played firm graphite for
drivers and 3 wood. I just recently tested a few new 3 woods with steel
shaft (Titleist 980, Callaway Steelhead III, and others) against their firm
graphite counterparts. I hit consistantly much better with the steel. I'm
actually considering trying a steel shaft on my driver. I always thought
that steel shafts on woods were for ultra high swing speeds. Is this not
true? What are the pros and cons of getting a steel shafted 3 wood or
driver?

Thanks for the advice.

mike dalecki

Steel comes in all sorts of flexes so it isn't really relevant to swing
speed per se. Steel does have a lower torque than graphite, which will
a particular flex feel a tad stiffer.

Graphite is inherently less consistent than steel. It's got a higher
torque (though you can come close to steel if you are willing to pay the
piper). When someone says "firm" graphite, who knows what that means?
Shafts in the same line labelled the same way can vary by 1/2 flex,
sometimes even by an entire flex. It's the nature of graphite.

A lot of players like steel because it's easier to predict. What steel
also does is makes for a shorter club at the same swingweight (though
there's nothing that stops you from using graphite in a shorter club, I
suppose).

Graphite has only two basic advantages: It's lighter than steel, so
longer clubs can be made which have the same swingweight (or the same
length clubs can be made w/ lower total weight and/or lower
swingweight). Longer clubs presumably equate to longer distance, but
only if you can still hit the sweet spot. A 45" driver in graphite
might have a swingweight of D1; making a 45" driver out of steel with
the same head would probably get you a swingweight of E0 or so.

Second, graphite absorbs shock of mishits well, though this isn't much
of an issue for a driver.

I think the advantages of steel are that it's more consistent, and you
end up w/ a shorter club, with which is easier to return the sweetspot
to the ball at impact. I think a lot of what people are experiencing is
simply better consistency from a shorter club. It turns out that the
extra length of a graphite driver doesn't add all that much to total
drive length.

I've gone w/ steel in my KZG RBT/FW 3-wood, and I love it. Easy to
control, I always know where the clubhead is, and I'm comfortable with
it. I have a Fujikura Vista Pro in my driver (RBT/325), but it's only
44.5" long. It's amazing to me how much difference that 1/2" makes in
controlling the club. I've toyed w/ the idea of going w/ steel in a
driver; at some point, probably I will to see how I fare w/ it.

Mike
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003
RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

mike dalecki

Steel comes in all sorts of flexes so it isn't really relevant to swing
speed per se. Steel does have a lower torque than graphite, which will
a particular flex feel a tad stiffer.

Graphite is inherently less consistent than steel. It's got a higher
torque (though you can come close to steel if you are willing to pay the
piper). When someone says "firm" graphite, who knows what that means?
Shafts in the same line labelled the same way can vary by 1/2 flex,
sometimes even by an entire flex. It's the nature of graphite.

A lot of players like steel because it's easier to predict. What steel
also does is makes for a shorter club at the same swingweight (though
there's nothing that stops you from using graphite in a shorter club, I
suppose).

Graphite has only two basic advantages: It's lighter than steel, so
longer clubs can be made which have the same swingweight (or the same
length clubs can be made w/ lower total weight and/or lower
swingweight). Longer clubs presumably equate to longer distance, but
only if you can still hit the sweet spot. A 45" driver in graphite
might have a swingweight of D1; making a 45" driver out of steel with
the same head would probably get you a swingweight of E0 or so.

Second, graphite absorbs shock of mishits well, though this isn't much
of an issue for a driver.

I think the advantages of steel are that it's more consistent, and you
end up w/ a shorter club, with which is easier to return the sweetspot
to the ball at impact. I think a lot of what people are experiencing is
simply better consistency from a shorter club. It turns out that the
extra length of a graphite driver doesn't add all that much to total
drive length.

I've gone w/ steel in my KZG RBT/FW 3-wood, and I love it. Easy to
control, I always know where the clubhead is, and I'm comfortable with
it. I have a Fujikura Vista Pro in my driver (RBT/325), but it's only
44.5" long. It's amazing to me how much difference that 1/2" makes in
controlling the club. I've toyed w/ the idea of going w/ steel in a
driver; at some point, probably I will to see how I fare w/ it.

Mike
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003
RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

jim sabatke

First, you limit selection. Not all manufacturers make heads for steel
shafts. I believe graphite shaft heads are about 10 grams heavier than
steel shaft heads.

Second, graphite shafts have gotten a lot better in the past few years.
I don't believe most of the pros would be playing them if they didn't
offer advantages.

Third, hey, clubs are all about feel and if steel feels better and you
can find a club that performs, that's what really counts.

FWIW, I like the feel of steel too, but I've given in on the woods and
gone with nice stiff graphite shafts. They aren't near as "bendy" as
they used to be, and newer shafts seem to not break like the older ones
did, for me anyway.

--
Jim Sabatke
Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good
with ketchup.

jim sabatke

First, you limit selection. Not all manufacturers make heads for steel
shafts. I believe graphite shaft heads are about 10 grams heavier than
steel shaft heads.

Second, graphite shafts have gotten a lot better in the past few years.
I don't believe most of the pros would be playing them if they didn't
offer advantages.

Third, hey, clubs are all about feel and if steel feels better and you
can find a club that performs, that's what really counts.

FWIW, I like the feel of steel too, but I've given in on the woods and
gone with nice stiff graphite shafts. They aren't near as "bendy" as
they used to be, and newer shafts seem to not break like the older ones
did, for me anyway.

--
Jim Sabatke
Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good
with ketchup.

frostback

The advantages of steel are the obvious lower torque and related
effects. The advantage of graphite is that it is much mighter and you
can make the club longer at the same swingwieght. The longer the club,
the faster the clubhead is moving for a given speed of hand movement
(can't think of a better way to say that). Feel wise, you get more
clubhead speed for an easier swing with graphite. If, however, your
swing strategy is to swing as hard as you can, or an easy swing for you
(like TW) is driver clubhead speed = 120 MPH!! steel is probably a good
idea because "hard as you can" will generate a lot of torqiness,
especially if your swing is offplane. In the case of the 120MPH
swingspeed, you will hit the ball a long way with any shaft, so why not
go with the more consistent steel (in the case of a driver)?

For me, it is much easier to keep an easy swing on plane and thus I go
for graphite and a light club. The light club has the added advantage of
accelerating more rapidly for a given amount of force as well. I use the
Bimatrx, which is steel at the tip, but is a LW shaft overall. This is
not a good shaft for swing as hard as you can though. I don't know why,
it just isn't, in my experience!

frostback

The advantages of steel are the obvious lower torque and related
effects. The advantage of graphite is that it is much mighter and you
can make the club longer at the same swingwieght. The longer the club,
the faster the clubhead is moving for a given speed of hand movement
(can't think of a better way to say that). Feel wise, you get more
clubhead speed for an easier swing with graphite. If, however, your
swing strategy is to swing as hard as you can, or an easy swing for you
(like TW) is driver clubhead speed = 120 MPH!! steel is probably a good
idea because "hard as you can" will generate a lot of torqiness,
especially if your swing is offplane. In the case of the 120MPH
swingspeed, you will hit the ball a long way with any shaft, so why not
go with the more consistent steel (in the case of a driver)?

For me, it is much easier to keep an easy swing on plane and thus I go
for graphite and a light club. The light club has the added advantage of
accelerating more rapidly for a given amount of force as well. I use the
Bimatrx, which is steel at the tip, but is a LW shaft overall. This is
not a good shaft for swing as hard as you can though. I don't know why,
it just isn't, in my experience!

jeffc

Yeah. But still, they could use a shorter graphite shaft too, and use a
heavier shaft or add weight to the head if they like.


I used to use a 44" driver, and am now using a 44.5" driver, and I think
they are easier to control and longer then 45" shafts (for me.) I also use
a head that is suited to me in lie angle (Titleist, which is relatively flat
at 57*.) On the other extreme, you could go to a Taylor Made 360, which if
I remember correctly was 46" with a 60* lie.

jeffc

Yeah. But still, they could use a shorter graphite shaft too, and use a
heavier shaft or add weight to the head if they like.


I used to use a 44" driver, and am now using a 44.5" driver, and I think
they are easier to control and longer then 45" shafts (for me.) I also use
a head that is suited to me in lie angle (Titleist, which is relatively flat
at 57*.) On the other extreme, you could go to a Taylor Made 360, which if
I remember correctly was 46" with a 60* lie.