the viceroy of common sense

Martin Brodeur consoles his Anaheim counterpart, J.S. Giguere.
Charles Krupa /
Associated Press

Playing with multiple — but hidden — injuries to his groin and knee,
which hampered his style, Brodeur nevertheless mucked through and
delivered more often when it counted most.

In some ways the credit was top-heavy in Anaheim. As good as Giguere
was, the Mighty Ducks had other stars as well. How about Keith Carney,
Petr Sykora, Paul Kariya, Adam Oates, to name a few?

But that's a lesser point.

What matters is that Brodeur pitched three shutouts in seven games of
the finals. Plus, his stickhandling skills — never factored into his MVP
credentials — add into his hard-work minutes, giving him a still further
edge over Giguere.

Bottom Line 1: The Mighty Ducks wouldn't have gone to Game 7 of the
finals without Jean-Sebastien Giguere.

Bottom Line 2: The Devils wouldn't have won the Stanley Cup without
Martin Brodeur coming through when it counted most over four series.

Bottom Line 3: New Jersey wouldn't have won the championship without
Brodeur out-goaling Giguere in Game 7 by a clear-cut three goals to
none.

Final Bottom Line: Giguere winning the Conn Smythe is a feel-good story
that the writers fell for, hook, line and stinker, but the genuine
winner should have been Martin Brodeur.

iain fraser

Bottom line: Marty was in contention (in my and most people I talk to - no
science here) until he scored that most embarrassing goal against himself.
Sorry, but that one play ended his chances. The way things ended up was
totally understandable. Among Devils players, there were a number nominated
for the trophy. Giggy was lone in the cause. If not for the split in votes
among Devils players, it most certainly would have gone to a Devil, but not
Brodeur.

jcaramagna

So you approve of this writer purposely downplaying the contributions of
Niedermayer, Langenbrunner, and Madden? You think that's genuine? Sorry,
doesn't fly when you leave out facts for your own agenda. (Unless of course you
snipped those parts)

Regarding those Ducks he named, he'd be extremely hard-pressed to name
instances where any of those players put together two impact performances in a
row. You think *any* of them were even close to matching the contributions of
Niedermayer, Langenbrunner, and Madden?

This article sounds like one half of a point-counterpoint. It's like listening
to Sean Hannity where you know you're only getting one half of the information.

Joey

<a href="http://www.modeloperandi.com"><font size=4>Model Operandi!</font></a>

<a href="http://martycubic.itgo.com">The Official Marty Cubic Site
(www.martycubic.itgo.com)</a>

norrisdt

The Viceroy of Common Sense <letsallhuladance@grassskirts.com> writes:

None of this suggests that it was appropriate to boo Giguere.

Doug

the viceroy of common sense

So we are back at the starting gate again as what this discussion was
really about. Devils fans booing Giguere. Do you really want to drive
down this road again?

bob levine

While I was not among those booing and in fact, I was applauding him as
he skated off, I don't think anyone was booing him. They were I believe
booing the sports writers.

Bob

norrisdt

The Viceroy of Common Sense <letsallhuladance@grassskirts.com> writes:


No. No, I don't. Because I've said everything I plan on saying.

However, you keep throwing out things that don't support your argument.
Regardless, if I fail to respond, you're going to claim some sort of "victory"
here, as if it really matters what happens in a goddamn Usenet thread.

Doug

norrisdt

Bob Levine <robjlevin.nospan@netscape.net> writes:


Bob, several people in here have already admitted (actually, "bragged") about
booing Giguere. In fact, DG seems to still be rooting for Giguere to perform
poorly.

I realize that you're above that sort of thing, but your fellow Devil fans
apparently are not.

Doug

jcaramagna

Hey, Doug, don't tag team on my debate with another issue! ;-)

Joey
<a href="http://www.modeloperandi.com"><font size=4>Model Operandi!</font></a>

<a href="http://martycubic.itgo.com">The Official Marty Cubic Site
(www.martycubic.itgo.com)</a>

the viceroys blizzard

We're kinda going around in circles here. For the second time we seem to find
some common ground...an exit to opt out. I really don't plan on changing your
mind or Joey's mind for that matter on Giguere. My issue is that Marty is
somehow "less valuable" to his team than Giguere through this addition through
substraction equation that gets posited. That the seven shutouts, including
three in the finals, both NHL records is somehow ordinary barely deserving notice
because what?...that Marty wasn't the feelgood Cinderella story of the moment?
.....that Marty was surrounded by future hall of famers like Jay Pandolfo and
Grant Marshall rather than schlubs like Paul Kariya, Petr Sykora, Adam Oates,
Steve Thomas, and Keith Carney? And yet you and Joey throw out these notions
like "you don't support your argument", "you're wrong. just admit it." while I
continue to repeatedly ask a couple of apparent mimes why the 2003 criteria
wasn't applied to Dominic Hasek in 1999? And yet the mote is in my eye? Screw
that.

For all my blatherment (tm), I am the one who is a moderate centrist on this. I
can understand why the Giggy crowd felt Giguere deserved it despite not getting
what they came for...which in my honest opinion is part of what makes a player
most valuable to his club. Yeah...I have this silly notion, backed by the last
15 year of Conn Smythe awards, that if you are going to be a player most valuable
to your (losing) club above all other players, then you should be without equal
on the winning club. It is really this Giggycrowd's intoleration of the notion
that there was another guy on the ice for whom just as strong a case could be
made that fuels this debate. I showed the head of the hockey writers association
- 1 of the 15 that determines the Conn Smythe winner readily proferred his vote
could've gone either to Giguere or Brodeur. I showed that the Conn Smythe
format itself could tend to tilt the vote away as many hockey writers in our
market - which is counterbalanced numerically with writers in the LA market -
which as we all know have a long history of being openly hostile and dismissive
of the Devils organization in favor of the Original Six one a few miles east.
Nick and I posted up four articles that made the case for Brodeur - to show you
that we aren't delusional lone voices in the wilderness on this when you
challenged us to show _anyone_ in the media who sided with us.