22nd March 10:53
Actually what I think has been porposed by someone in teh webpage below
which Scott Gordon agrees as well & any rational normal human would agree
In fact few otehr have posted here sating tehy woudl support such a move.
Unliek you it includes even hardbat. Unlike you it is a "live & let live
unlike your selfish hatemongering ridiculous proposal you made a few days
23rd March 20:58
Boggan's Vol. II, History of American Table Tennis puts membership in
the late 40s at around 3,000, when the U.S. had about half the
population it has now.
Latest estimates I'm aware of for number of USATT members today puts
membership somewhere around 7,500-8,000.
This is not a massive improvement. Boggan mentions that even in the
1940s USTTA wazoos were thinking optimistically about getting USTTA
membership to a whopping 10,000.
Note that USATT was even more of a nickel-and-dime organization back
then than it is now, and, with few coaches, no nationally organized
junior development program, no robots, no multiball, you generally
learned to play the game well by falling under the tutelage of a good
player or, as now, playing better players until you became better
yourself, though without club, state, regional, and national level
coaches to help you along.
There were Pathe and Movietone shorts featuring highlights of major
tournaments you could sometimes catch between the Previews of Coming
Attractions and the main movie, but as television was in its infancy it
could not be a major player in attracting viewers who might become fans
of elite level pong as it was played then by the likes of Miles,
Reisman, Cartland, Thall Neuberger, Reilly, and McLean.
Now American pong faces different problems. It's become an Olympic
sport, getting funding from the USOC, not available to the 1940s USTTA,
has something of a coaching program, clinics one can attend to become a
little more conversant with the mysteries of modern pong, and a whole
bunch of sports channels that didn't and couldn't have existed back in
the Howdy Doody days of three network channels and that's pretty much
it for your 13" Philco.
For people who like to play sports competitively, there's much more
organization competition available to prospective competitors, both in
established sports Americans like, such as baseball, football,
basketball, and for racket sports, tennis, or a sport such as soccer,
which has taken off with respect to American youth and in which
Americans have become competitive, or "sports" which didn't exist back
in those post-WW II times, such as skateboarding, other "eXtreme"
sports, and jump-roping. Hell, an article in today's edition of USA
Today points out that the World Adult Kickball Association, founded in
1998, now has "8,500 kickballers nationwide, playing in divisions in 31
states". That's more kickballers than USATT has pongers.
If a sport can't attract kids or TV exposure, it's pretty much gonna be
niche city as far as Americans are concerned. If it's too damn
complicated to attract a broad base of adults who'd like to play
competitively, but in a league rather than individual format (and here
let me say that the USATT League, in which I've participated, is at
least theoretically a good idea), ditto.
Table tennis sure as Samsonov doesn't need any more problems than it's
already got in competing for a slice of the American sports pie. You
don't need fancy-ass equipment to gum things up for and intimidate
newbies, who have got to either get their minds right or end up as
untouchables who can't handle speed or spin who'd be better off bowling
or going back to their Wal-Mart or K-Mart Blue Light Special hardbats.
Truth be told, USATT would probably be better off if they blew off the
USOC and ITTF, simplified equipment on their own so that people could
actually play with a pong paddle from the get-go as they could in those
Frankie Laine Mule Train times, endorsing Model-T rackets and rubbers
in the $20 to $40 range everybody could play with.
Americans don't give a flying Friendship Super FX if America isn't a
world power in ping pong. Millions of 'em do, however, like to play
it, and at the rec level they're probably just about as good as any
other country's rec players. Give 'em back their game, and maybe, just
maybe, if you deconstruct it, they will come.
23rd March 20:58
A truly brilliant idea by Berndt Mann ......HONESTLY
Which in your words is to :-
1. Get rid of anti & all pips with sponge as well as all pips no sponge
except hard rubber
2. Get rid of regluing
3, Reduce sponge thickneess & standradize to one rubber like D13
I can only pray that this happens. This would be such an wonderful
a second competing association to emrge & we all can benefit.
Excellent idea........this is NOT a joke ...in fact I hope ITTF does the
exact same thing
We can have one Association for one-size-fits all retrards and another for
more diversified progressive minded, "live & let live" folks which will be
a bonanza for manufacturers (even if they bring back the now null two color
as 2-group-colors rule....thus permitting them to make any color rubber of
possible quality for the brand of rubber)
Truly a brilliant idea......I am NOT joking.......best thing that can happen
23rd March 20:58
In other words tabletennis is not a sport for children.
I agree completely.
This is EXACTLY why I believe rules must be designed to accomodate juniors &
adults seniors differently.
Children must use nothing but inverted. (in Berndt Mann's USATT / ITTF they
would use 1.5 MM D3 only) . In a far inevitable competing Association they
would allow identical no regluing inverted upto 3 mm sponge thickness
(Comared to 2.5 mm now) as I saw in
In the USATT / ITTF the adults, Berndt Mann hopes will mostly choose
In a competing association they would play in a tactical group as defined in
http://3group.ittf.ws which will be a 2 group association since there
is no need
for the pure / holy hardbatters & one-size-fits all.
We can all play happily ever after healthy mentally(notghing to hatemonger)
& physically (no glue).
unless of course Berndt Mann bitches about the fact that only he & Marty &
Tim will be left as
members of USATT (Heck even Scott Gordon would to half leave )
23rd March 20:59
And going back to hardbat will ?
Table-tennis is NOT a sport for kids................period
Let us not kid ourselves.
The focus & priorities needs to be on NOT high school students but
college students and above older adults & as only a second or third sport
23rd March 20:59
Do you see why people may view you as a fruitcake ?
Stealing my idea of destruction ........shame on you.
Seriously I am 200% for it ( only because a competing association will be
there the next day )
but the bureaucrats of USATT & ITTF would never releinquish stranglehold of
sport ..............they would rather keep & abuse the spineless cowards
to be nice to them rather than do something really promotes diversity &
popularity of the sport.
24th March 08:03
Going back to hardbat might, for a number of reasons. One simple and
straightforward reason is that hardbats tend to be less expensive and
less fragile than sponge rubber rackets. Hard rubber also does not
need to be cleaned nearly as often as sponge rubber.
Faced with budget considerations, a city recreation center, YMCA or
YWCA, Boys' Club, elementary, middle or high school would be better
advised to spend around $3.00 apiece for a playable hard rubber racket
than around $9.00 apiece for a minimally expensive sponge rubber
racket, which will be no more and probably less tactilely sensitive,
won't be competitive even against higher quality rackets presently
desinged for recreational players, and which will wear out sooner, as
plain old kids do not tend to keep the rackets they play with in Clicky
presses or hyperbaric chambers, unlike some of Marco's politically
incorrect 10-year-old 1800+ level honor roll first-born Asian youth who
can't change a tire.
Sponge rubber tends to desocialize pong for kids and adults alike. One
lovely thing about pong is that it can be played at home anywhere
there's enough minimal space, at other public places where there are
tables, and at USATT-affiliated clubs.
But, and here's the rub: any youngster who with coaching becomes at
least a 1000 level player is gonna kill his recreactional level
playmates if he plays them with an advanced inverted paddle at his home
or theirs or anywhere else and they're, no matter whether more or less
athletic, playing with inexpensive hardbats or low quality sponge bats.
In a hard rubber world, a 1000-level kid who's been coached and who's
acquired an entry level acquaintance with table tennis techniques is
still gonna be able to bury his friends in social pong, but if he/she
has acquired some touch this kid is also gonna be able to keep the ball
in play so his/her friends are gonna be able to rally to some extent.
Some of them may be so impressed by what this kid can to as to want to
learn how to play better themselves.
I may be mistaken, but I imagine 9-year old 1193-rated Austin Preiss,
son of coach and exhibition player Scott Priess, who's being playing
since age two (two???!!!!), wasn't introduced to pong, as I was, by
bonking a ball around with playmates on a table in a garage. Young
Austin's been exposed to high-level coaching and training from the
get-go. He probably doesn't play much, if at all, his rec-level
playing friends because he'd slaughter 'em. In a hard rubber world,
he'd be better able to play both socially with playmates who like pong
but who aren't deadly serious about beoming at least two grand level
players and just as well able to practice with and compete against kids
who are at that level.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Table tennis right now is a competitive sport for what? maybe 1000 or
so kids because competitive pong requires more coaching, more training,
more of a progression from basically competitive equiment to more
advanced competitive equipment, with its subsequent expense, than many
children have the time to devote, requires the access to capable and
patient instruction they will need, and, if their parents are not
particularly well off, also requires money to pay for equipment and
instruction, unless capable instruction for free is available.
In a hard rubber table tennis world, kids who want to learn to play
better so they can both be more competitive and enjoy themselves, but
have no elite or national or world class aspirations, could learn to
play with their basic hard rubber rackets to say, the 1200 level, with
patient and capable instruction. They could enjoy playing anywhere, at
home, in public places, and at clubs, at a level which is relatively
satisfying, competing, should they wish, against their betters without
having to worry nearly so much what their betters' equipment can do, as
well as what their betters can do with it. If they want to decide to
become more advanced players, in a hard rubber world in which basic
rackets cost $3-$10 and "advanced" hard rubber rackets cost $20-$40,
rubber included, it's not going to cost them nearly quite so much an
arm and a leg to upgrade as it presently does with sponge.
The present pong situation for children seems to me to be biased toward
training talented children who will become at the least elite level
players, as opposed to teaching children at all levels of athletic
ability to play table tennis at at least a minimally satisfactory
competitve level (say USATT around 1200), so they have enough knowledge
of at least basic table tennis techniques to employ them, relative to
their abilities, to play enjoyably and somewhat competitively. Han
Xiaos and Mark Hazinskis and Whitney Pings and Jacqueline Lees are all
well and good, and necessary if the U.S. is going to try to be a factor
in world competition, but they themselves aren't likely to popularize
the sport for children in general through their achievements. Making
table tennis easier to play and enjoy for children in general just
might. Teaching children hard rubber table tennis might just be the
best way to achieve this. Playing with hard rubber rackets in general
wouldn't hurt this approach to "grassroots" junior development, either.